Gen Con renews contract
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Posted by aaronmlopez

Squirecam, I am not trying to be rude, but how would you want it to be "addressed"? Gen Con has tried to make the hotel room situation downtown better for everyone by instituting the room lottery. They have addressed the outlying hotel shuttle issue by discontinuing it altogether. (I don't know the reason as I am not involved in these types of discussions.)

What other "serious problems" are there that you feel are being swept under the rug?

Personally, I think Gen Con is doing a very good job with their resources and in the handling of the convention and everything that happens overall. Will they be able to please everybody? ABSOLUTELY NOT. But if 90% are satisfied, would it be a better use of your resources and time to focus on keeping the 90% happy or turn instead to capturing the other 10% by adjusting something that may negatively affect the others? Are there going to be problems with a convention this large? Yes. Can they be fixed? Some may not be able to be fixed. (For example, I don't believe there is a better way to handle the hotel room situation as there simply are simply not enough hotel rooms downtown to handle the attendance.) As for a change in venue... I would like to see it closer only because I drive and hate that it takes 10+ hours.... but that is more selfish than anything else. It is all part and parcel with attending. I know that if I want to attend Gen Con I need to accept that there will be crowds and wall to wall people. I accept that there will be a lot of noise. I accept that I more than likely will stay away from downtown and have to drive in every day. I accept that I will have to pay for parking. I accept that there will be ticket prices. I accept that there may be games I want to play but fill up every year before I can purchase an event ticket. No matter what, I find that I have fun, which is why I go. If it were not fun, I would just stay home.

Posted by squirecam aaronmlopez

aaronmlopez wrote:
Squirecam, I am not trying to be rude, but how would you want it to be "addressed"? Gen Con has tried to make the hotel room situation downtown better for everyone by instituting the room lottery. They have addressed the outlying hotel shuttle issue by discontinuing it altogether. (I don't know the reason as I am not involved in these types of discussions.)
What other "serious problems" are there that you feel are being swept under the rug?
Its real simple. When Gov. Pence and the legislature went on the gay-hate spree, Gen Con immediately came out with a statement, letting the government know exactly what they thought and that there were other options besides Indy.

The same power can be used here. There is a clear lack of public infrastructure in transport that ANY city wanting to be a convention mecca has. Starting with easy public transport to the convention center in the form of light rail, shuttles, etc. You dont need more downtown hotel rooms if you had this.

But second, Gen con did not "address" the shuttle issue. They specifically did NOT address it by having the attendees fend for themselves. What other major convention location, knowing of a problem with attendees getting to the venue, simply shrugs and gives up? NONE

And if Indy cant or wont fix the problem, there are cities that have it already that should be considered for the future.

TLDR - Gen con could use public pressure on govt to deal with infrastructure while also negotiating for a shuttle service rather than ignoring the problem.

 

Posted by bugwar squirecam

squirecam wrote:
 Gen con could use public pressure on govt to deal with infrastructure while also negotiating for a shuttle service rather than ignoring the problem.

Let's see.
52 weeks in a year.
Gencon is in Indianapolis for just one of those.
I wonder how the convention center and the town survive the other 51 weeks?
I suspect that Gencon doesn't have quite as much political pull as you think it does.
 

Posted by squirecam

If you never try then you will never know.

Posted by aaronmlopez

I think you are assuming that other conventions held in Indianapolis draw as many people as Gen Con does. Only a few events in Indianapolis over the next couple of years are large enough to require outlying hotel use. And many of those are only one-shot events that will probably not return year-after-year. So if a city implements a public transport system it should only do so if there is year round support for it. Right now, that is not the case for Indianapolis. I think the only event expected to draw  a higher attendance than Gen Con next year is the Big Ten Football championship in December. The remaining conventions could be housed nearly entirely by the current downtown hotels. So you are asking Indianapolis to implement a public transportation system that would only be used for 8 days out of the year provided that the Big Ten Championship AND Gen Con stay in the city. Currently, Indianapolis does not have a need for a public transportation system. 

Posted by bugwar squirecam

squirecam wrote:
If you never try then you will never know.

I never tried breaking the bank in Las Vegas.
Somehow or another, I suspect it is a wise decision.

Posted by genconkeeper squirecam

squirecam wrote:
There are a ton of cities with better public transport. Many have light rail service directly to their convention center.
The vast majority of people can no longer stay downtown. There is simply not the space. So the fact that it has a nice downtown is less useful when you have issues even getting there.
Indianapolis passed a income tax increase in last election for a major upgrade in our transit system. We are serious about mass transit in Indianapolis. http://indyconnect.org/the-central-indiana-transit-plan/the-marion-county-transit-plan/

Posted by squirecam aaronmlopez

aaronmlopez wrote:
I think you are assuming that other conventions held in Indianapolis draw as many people as Gen Con does. Only a few events in Indianapolis over the next couple of years are large enough to require outlying hotel use. And many of those are only one-shot events that will probably not return year-after-year. So if a city implements a public transport system it should only do so if there is year round support for it. Right now, that is not the case for Indianapolis. I think the only event expected to draw  a higher attendance than Gen Con next year is the Big Ten Football championship in December. The remaining conventions could be housed nearly entirely by the current downtown hotels. So you are asking Indianapolis to implement a public transportation system that would only be used for 8 days out of the year provided that the Big Ten Championship AND Gen Con stay in the city. Currently, Indianapolis does not have a need for a public transportation system. 

If Indy cannot support Gen con, because its other conventions are small, then Gen con has outgrown Indy and should move.

I think that Indy citizens do need mass public transport though, as evidenced above.

Posted by squirecam genconkeeper

genconkeeper wrote:
squirecam wrote:
There are a ton of cities with better public transport. Many have light rail service directly to their convention center.
The vast majority of people can no longer stay downtown. There is simply not the space. So the fact that it has a nice downtown is less useful when you have issues even getting there.
Indianapolis passed a income tax increase in last election for a major upgrade in our transit system. We are serious about mass transit in Indianapolis. http://indyconnect.org/the-central-indiana-transit-plan/the-marion-county-transit-plan/

Are there many hotels along this proposed line? It seemed more for residents from my short review.

Posted by nscott garhkal

garhkal wrote:
aaronmlopez wrote: Hotel prices are higher during "peak" times versus "off peak". It is pretty much the same wherever you go. It's not GOUGING. It's supply and demand. High demand + limited supply = higher cost (Action comics #1 is a good example... low supply, high demand = you are going to shell out a fortune to own it. If there were millions of copies available, then the price would be low.)

While that is true, what i am irked about is that towns such as ind have pushed a tax on VISITORS who have NO capacity to vote on said tax's implementation on us..  Unlike say a new levie for property taxes that we DO get to vote on in our local township/county..
You didn't get to vote on the sales tax rate in Indianapolis either, but that doesn't seem to bother you. I would guess nearly every major city with a professional sports team or two has used the hotel and car rental tax as a way to get fund the new stadiums they keep getting strong armed to build. The hotel tax in Indy is servicing the debt on the bonds that built and expanded the convention center, the football stadium and the basketball arena. And you do get to"vote" on it by not travelling to a city whose tax rate you think is unfair.

Posted by nscott squirecam

squirecam wrote:
genconkeeper wrote:
squirecam wrote:
There are a ton of cities with better public transport. Many have light rail service directly to their convention center.
The vast majority of people can no longer stay downtown. There is simply not the space. So the fact that it has a nice downtown is less useful when you have issues even getting there.
Indianapolis passed a income tax increase in last election for a major upgrade in our transit system. We are serious about mass transit in Indianapolis. http://indyconnect.org/the-central-indiana-transit-plan/the-marion-county-transit-plan/

Are there many hotels along this proposed line? It seemed more for residents from my short review.
Oh dear, A city spending tax dollars for the betterment of its citizens. This surely needs to be investigated by a congressional  committee. But seriously lets throw out some numbers...Detroit is getting close to opening a new light rail line. Its 3.3 miles long and is costing around 160 million dollars. Its also taken about 3 years to build. The six trains that will run on it seat 125 people. Assume a third of the non-downtown gencon attendies are near the line and wish to use it. You would need 80 trains to get 10000 people downtown. If you're lucky they might be able to run every 15 minutes. 1200 minutes, 20 hours! Sorry you missed the opening of the dealers hall. 3.3 miles doesnt get you to the airport hotels in Indy by the way. With the 10 dollar ticket tax Indy collects on 60,000 gencon attendees it will only take about 260 years to pay it off. 
 

Posted by squirecam nscott

nscott wrote:
squirecam wrote:
genconkeeper wrote:
squirecam wrote:
There are a ton of cities with better public transport. Many have light rail service directly to their convention center.
The vast majority of people can no longer stay downtown. There is simply not the space. So the fact that it has a nice downtown is less useful when you have issues even getting there.
Indianapolis passed a income tax increase in last election for a major upgrade in our transit system. We are serious about mass transit in Indianapolis. http://indyconnect.org/the-central-indiana-transit-plan/the-marion-county-transit-plan/

Are there many hotels along this proposed line? It seemed more for residents from my short review.
Oh dear, A city spending tax dollars for the betterment of its citizens. This surely needs to be investigated by a congressional  committee. But seriously lets throw out some numbers...Detroit is getting close to opening a new light rail line. Its 3.3 miles long and is costing around 160 million dollars. Its also taken about 3 years to build. The six trains that will run on it seat 125 people. Assume a third of the non-downtown gencon attendies are near the line and wish to use it. You would need 80 trains to get 10000 people downtown. If you're lucky they might be able to run every 15 minutes. 1200 minutes, 20 hours! Sorry you missed the opening of the dealers hall. 3.3 miles doesnt get you to the airport hotels in Indy by the way. With the 10 dollar ticket tax Indy collects on 60,000 gencon attendees it will only take about 260 years to pay it off. 
 
Not sure why you felt the need for snark.

If you want to be a major convention city, you need to have the infrastructure. If you cant or wont build it, fine, but dont expect people to be happy when your convention center loses business because of the lack of public transport.

Either Indy wants to keep hosting Gen con or they dont. But if they do then they need to take steps to solve the attendee problems.
 

Posted by aaronmlopez

Squirecam, I am not really sure that Gen Con has the "attendee problems" at a large scale at all. Again, you cannot make everybody happy and the complaints are only coming from a relatively small number of the 60k attendees. If a larger percentage of Gen Con goers were to start voicing displeasure and lodging complaints then I would agree that it should consider relocating. However, the number of complaints probably amount to less than 1 percent, which unfortunately is not enough to make an impact. Last years thread about this only saw about 20 to 50 different users posting which is considerably less than 1% of attendees.

Posted by garhkal nscott

nscott wrote:You didn't get to vote on the sales tax rate in Indianapolis either, but that doesn't seem to bother you. I would guess nearly every major city with a professional sports team or two has used the hotel and car rental tax as a way to get fund the new stadiums they keep getting strong armed to build. The hotel tax in Indy is servicing the debt on the bonds that built and expanded the convention center, the football stadium and the basketball arena. And you do get to"vote" on it by not travelling to a city whose tax rate you think is unfair.

Yes i do get irked about high sales taxes in some areas, or road tolls and such.  its one of the main reasons if i DO have to go up to Naperville in Chicago's west side for say one of our groups gaming conventions, i do all i can, even if it adds half an hour/hour (and 1 more gallon of gas) to skirt those toll roads etc...

Posted by squirecam aaronmlopez

aaronmlopez wrote:
Squirecam, I am not really sure that Gen Con has the "attendee problems" at a large scale at all. Again, you cannot make everybody happy and the complaints are only coming from a relatively small number of the 60k attendees. If a larger percentage of Gen Con goers were to start voicing displeasure and lodging complaints then I would agree that it should consider relocating. However, the number of complaints probably amount to less than 1 percent, which unfortunately is not enough to make an impact. Last years thread about this only saw about 20 to 50 different users posting which is considerably less than 1% of attendees.

I guarantee you that more than 1% had problems with the shuttle system during those years. Otherwise Gen con would not have dropped it.

Maybe more don't post because they already think what I fear, that Gen con ignored the problem last year, got away with it, and thus will keep doing so.

Posted by aaronmlopez squirecam

squirecam wrote:
aaronmlopez wrote:
Squirecam, I am not really sure that Gen Con has the "attendee problems" at a large scale at all. Again, you cannot make everybody happy and the complaints are only coming from a relatively small number of the 60k attendees. If a larger percentage of Gen Con goers were to start voicing displeasure and lodging complaints then I would agree that it should consider relocating. However, the number of complaints probably amount to less than 1 percent, which unfortunately is not enough to make an impact. Last years thread about this only saw about 20 to 50 different users posting which is considerably less than 1% of attendees.

I guarantee you that more than 1% had problems with the shuttle system during those years. Otherwise Gen con would not have dropped it.Maybe more don't post because they already think what I fear, that Gen con ignored the problem last year, got away with it, and thus will keep doing so.
How can you "guarantee" that? You do bring up one point, which is a problem with a lot of stuff, not just Gen Con. People need to speak up if there is a problem, otherwise those in power will not know if it should be addressed. Shame on those who have problems and don't let anyone that has the ability to make a change know.

Secondly, how do you know Gen Con ignored the shuttle? I am not in on their meetings and I am going to guess that you are also not part of these meetings. Perhaps the CITY did something that made it unfeasible to run shuttles? Perhaps the shuttle companies themselves changed something? Perhaps Uber and Lyft made a significant dent in operations of the shuttle that it was just not affordable. Perhaps the shuttle drivers were part of a union where the union decided not to run. What I am saying is, it may not be entirely Gen Con that made the decision not to run the shuttles. And if Gen Con was able to run fine without the shuttles, what would the incentive be to bring them back? You would have additional labor involved in order to work out a shuttle schedule for relatively half of your attendees to use, running what hours? All night? Peak times? Trade hall hours? Any way you run them, you are going to have some people dissatisfied as no matter what, the shuttle service schedule will not match up with all attendees event schedules which will cause people to be late/miss events which may cause even greater problems. 

Until I get facts about why the shuttles were not run last year, I just accepted that there would be none and planned my trip accordingly. Nothing I can do about the past. Last year, I reserved a parking spot through Parking Panda and will probably do the same this year if I stay in the same place/do the same thing I did last time (less than a 10 min drive in, and parking a block from the convention center). 

Posted by squirecam aaronmlopez

aaronmlopez wrote:Perhaps the CITY did something that made it unfeasible to run shuttles? Perhaps the shuttle companies themselves changed something? Perhaps Uber and Lyft made a significant dent in operations of the shuttle that it was just not affordable. Perhaps the shuttle drivers were part of a union where the union decided not to run. What I am saying is, it may not be entirely Gen Con that made the decision not to run the shuttles. And if Gen Con was able to run fine without the shuttles, what would the incentive be to bring them back? You would have additional labor involved in order to work out a shuttle schedule for relatively half of your attendees to use, running what hours? All night? Peak times? Trade hall hours? Any way you run them, you are going to have some people dissatisfied as no matter what, the shuttle service schedule will not match up with all attendees event schedules which will cause people to be late/miss events which may cause even greater problems. 
Which is why a move to a city with light rail/subway/shuttles might be necessary. Every other major convention city has these features. Indy does not.
 

Posted by alans

I like Indy.  I see no need to move.
Vegas is not pedestrian friendly.
Chicago is a nightmare for conventions from all I have read, and sounds like attendees are confined to the convention center.
Orlando seems as though there are no where near the close hotels.
Gen Con may have reached is natural max, we will see what happens in 2017. Big 50 = maybe busier, later start = maybe fewer attendees bc of school...

Posted by monkeyknifefight

There are plenty of hotels in driving distance and plenty of parking spaces. The majority of GenCon attendees just need to drive now. They would have to do the same or use public transit which takes even longer at any other convention city other than Vegas. GenCon's real concern is running out of event space. They already started using part of Lucas oil. Another 10-20% growth and they are out of space.

Posted by lore seeker monkeyknifefight

monkeyknifefight wrote:
There are plenty of hotels in driving distance and plenty of parking spaces. The majority of GenCon attendees just need to drive now.

Problem with that is a lack of parking space. That's why a good shuttle service is so critical to so many. Unfortunately, the shuttle service wasn't good even when it was there by most accounts, and now it's not there at all.

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