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Posted by mhayward1978 armadilloal

armadilloal wrote:
lmengsol wrote:I don't know where more people don't see this as a fix. Mandalay Bay has 1.5 million feet of exhibit space where as the Indy Convention Center has 566,000. Mandalay Bay also has 3300 guest rooms nearly the connected amount that is in downtown Indy. When you add Luxor (which is next door) that's another 4400 hotel rooms. That exceed the capacity of Indy and they are all walkable. I am guessing you could get those rooms at or below the price point Indy is charging. More space, more walkable rooms, I don't see how this isn't a winner.

According to http://www.lvol.com/conventions/large.html, the largest convention coming up at the Mandalay Bay Convention Center is the JCK Annual Trade Show on June 5-8, at 39,000 attendees.Prices for a Resort Queen room on those dates?
6/4 - $327
6/5 - $470
6/6 - $470
6/7 - $327
That's a Monday-Thursday convention, so those are midweek rates.
Let's try another one.  The Licensing International Expo is there on May 23-25 and will have 24k attendees.  Throw in RECon's 37k at the LVCC (which runs from 5/22-5/24), and we're right on the 61k number Gen Con was at last year.  Rates for the Mandalay Bay's basic Resort Queen?
5/21 - $308
5/22 - $524
5/23 - $524
5/24 - $294
Again, those dates are Sunday through Wednesday.  
I really don't see a 60+k convention like Gen Con getting better rates there than they do in Indy.
 

Stop injecting facts into this debate!  How dare you!
 

Posted by garhkal mhayward1978

mhayward1978 wrote
You know - I'm not even sure that's cheating.  I explicitly asked on the forums whether this was OK or a violation of terms before registration. 

It might not be cheating in the literal sense, but in a more common sense style..
Just like in a RPG, having your character "meta-game" (where he uses knowledge for his character, that there's no way the CHARACTER should know, just cause the player does" is often not explicitly called out as 'cheating.  however, its often SEEN as cheating.
stiehle wrote:
Heh.  No wonder then that those who followed the rules of the lottery as intended never really had a shot at a decent time slot if this sort of cheating was commonplace (and yeah, I'd personally call it cheating).  I suppose there will always be those that exploit the system for the benefit of themselves with no concern or respect for others.  Sad, really...

I agree.  Which is why to me it is cheating..

 

Posted by nialith

This thread had me wondering what rooms might still be available in the area after all the Housing hubbub calmed down. One person posted that there were no affordable rooms available within 10 miles of the convention center. This doesn't seem to be true.

I took a quick look on the Marriott and Hilton sites. I found 7 Marriott hotels with rooms available ranging from $156 to $313 per night. Hilton shows 8 hotels with rooms available ranging from $127 to $249. So it seems if you are willing to stay a little further away, there are more than enough affordable hotel rooms available. Certainly not as good as staying at an attached hotel for sure but it doesn't seem to support the argument that Indy doesn't have enough hotel rooms available. 

Posted by roganca mhayward1978

mhayward1978 wrote:
armadilloal wrote:
lmengsol wrote:I don't know where more people don't see this as a fix. Mandalay Bay has 1.5 million feet of exhibit space where as the Indy Convention Center has 566,000. Mandalay Bay also has 3300 guest rooms nearly the connected amount that is in downtown Indy. When you add Luxor (which is next door) that's another 4400 hotel rooms. That exceed the capacity of Indy and they are all walkable. I am guessing you could get those rooms at or below the price point Indy is charging. More space, more walkable rooms, I don't see how this isn't a winner.

According to http://www.lvol.com/conventions/large.html, the largest convention coming up at the Mandalay Bay Convention Center is the JCK Annual Trade Show on June 5-8, at 39,000 attendees.Prices for a Resort Queen room on those dates?
6/4 - $327
6/5 - $470
6/6 - $470
6/7 - $327
That's a Monday-Thursday convention, so those are midweek rates.
Let's try another one.  The Licensing International Expo is there on May 23-25 and will have 24k attendees.  Throw in RECon's 37k at the LVCC (which runs from 5/22-5/24), and we're right on the 61k number Gen Con was at last year.  Rates for the Mandalay Bay's basic Resort Queen?
5/21 - $308
5/22 - $524
5/23 - $524
5/24 - $294
Again, those dates are Sunday through Wednesday.  
I really don't see a 60+k convention like Gen Con getting better rates there than they do in Indy.

Stop injecting facts into this debate!  How dare you!
 
Can I get in on the future housing forum postings before the rush begins? "$524/night? Another Gen Con Las Vegas FAIL!"

Posted by asgelb

Does Vegas have a good convention center NOT in a hotel? I was just at a convention for real estate at Mandalay bay....and with 17,000 it was tight in the hallways. 60k wouldn't work well there..sure they have a lot of exhibition rooms and a very large main hall, but the hallways and escalators didn't seem to handle 17k all that well. But yes, there are a LOT more rooms in the area including Mandalay, Luxor and Excalibur (all attached by a free tram) (And Luxor and Excalibur are a bit more kid friendly (and Mandalay has great pools and an aquarium.)

Also, August in Vegas is BRUTAL hot, I think I'd take 90 and humid over 120...granted you don't have to go outside in Vegas but 4 days of no sunlight isn't a great idea. 

But that being said, living in Los Angeles, I'd much rather fly to Vegas than Indy...

Posted by asgelb

And I know people are anti San Diego, but there is no better convention center than the one in San Diego.....I think the hotels attached to the convention center and within the Gaslamp are pretty significant, but I haven't checked the stats...All I know is that the 3-4 times I've been to comicon (which handles crowds of 120,000+) I would think that it could handle 60-70k quite well. And they could borrow the bus system comicon uses to connect hotels further away, which works quite well (unsure of operating costs).

Sure, a satellite Gencon may fail on the coast because everyone wants to go to the "real" Gencon, but if Gencon just up and moved to a new location, I'm sure it would do just fine. If I'm willing to fly to Indy, I'm willing to fly pretty much anywhere in the States.

It would just be a question if the City itself could handle Gencon after the hangover of Comicon just a few weeks before it...the locals may protest.

and what about Anaheim? Not enough rooms nearby? 

 

Posted by hendelbolaf

I hear people like the original poster saying they have been going to Gen Con for years and have always had a room downtown until this year and all I can think is "Wow! You have been so lucky for so long, I guess it was time for you to have a slight down turn"

Maybe that is harsh and I wish they could get a room downtown, but I do not feel sorry for them.

My buddy who has also been going for decades and really, really wants to stay downtown booked a room at $500 or so a night in case he did not hit the housing jackpot. That is what people who are prepared to pay for that luxury do. They prepare in advance and ready themselves for the cost.

I have been blessed to stay downtown and have had remote sites. If you cannot get a downtown hotel in the housing block or you do not want to pay exorbitant rates outside the housing block and you do not have a car, I highly recommend you rent a car for the duration and drive in and park. I have found this to be a much more inexpensive way of enjoying they convention from a remote hotel.

I went outside the housing block and got a two twin beds and sleeper sofa for $80 a night. We wake up and get cleaned up and then head into downtown where the $30 a day parking is just a few feet from the convention center. If we need to drop off purchases or gear, the car is right there. We go from 8:00 AM to 1:00 AM so there is very little need for us to go back to a room, although I understand that some might want to do so. In that case there is plenty of relaxing chairs and couches (especially in the JW Marriott) where one could take a rest or I could always relax in my car if needed.

I guess what I am saying is that we can complain about this and that and wish for this and that, but if we were realistic we would prepare a secondary hotel in advance of the housing portal opening and always have a back up plan when disappointment comes.

I did not want to sound harsh or unfeeling and I really do hope that everyone enjoys the convention.

Posted by eldrad12000

Every year, I hear people bring up Vegas. The city I live in. It is a terrible idea! I repeat, it is a bad, horrible terrible idea. Yes Vegas has the space, I can't deny that. It is not the place for GenCon. You have to walk through the hotels. Which in my opion and I know many others will suck. They are smokey, and crowded and unlike GenCon crowded they will be filled with a bunch of other non gaming people. It is hot, the people suck ass, and yes it hosts CES. That convention which is larger is very different from GenCon.
Indy is crowded, that is an issue. But they are a very welcoming town, that does a lot to accommodate GenCon. The atmosphere is great, when you are in your hotel and walking around, most of the people there are also fellow gamers. Yes there are homeless and some people say they are spooked by them. Well Vegas has those as well, as well as a ton of drunks, and tourists who are assholes, hookers, people who stand along the strip passing out escort cards, which then are tossed all over the place. 
It is a terrible place for GenCon. You will gain all the space you want and lose everything else. The main money making in Vegas is gambling. GenCon attendees are not there to gamble, thus they will not be as welcomed as some people think.

I could go on for a while. But yeah, my city sucks. Not for all conventions, but for what GenCon is, it would suck.

Posted by ryanjamison

People keep mentioning the extra space at other convention centers, but space isn't really an issue for the immediate future. GenCon's overflow has been easily absorbed by nearby hotels, and they have just now begun to use the stadium space.

Posted by hendelbolaf ryanjamison

ryanjamison wrote:
People keep mentioning the extra space at other convention centers, but space isn't really an issue for the immediate future. GenCon's overflow has been easily absorbed by nearby hotels, and they have just now begun to use the stadium space.
It is also a moot point through at least 2020 as Gen Con is currently committed to Indianapolis through then to my understanding.

Posted by neonrhino

I was browsing the forums today and I was shocked to see this thread get to so many responses!
 
I have a friend that comes with me each year that has cerebral palsy. He is wheelchair-bound. In the last 5 years we've been attending, we have never once got a connected room. While undeniably it would make it easier for him to attend, he has never once complained about the situation. We always manage fine with an airbnb or a vrbo rental, often we stay outside the city boundary and drive in 10-20 mins. On the occasions that he's needed to get around without someone to drive him he calls an Uber or a Lyft, or just wheels himself to where he needs to go. We often just take purchases back to the car a few times a day if we're in the dealer hall.
 
There are ample rooms in Indy. The lottery is a fair way to handle connected rooms. There are a million ways to get around. The con has not outgrown the hall and the connected hotels and the stadium. I suspect it will not for a long, long time. Hell, the organizers themselves have pretty much said so now that its renewed its Indy contract until 2020.
 
If your complaint is 'I am personally inconvenienced because I don't want to have to spend time or money on commuting or parking' understand that your comfort level dropping does not support the argument that somehow GenCon has 'outgrown' Indy. All your complaint says is that you wish things were better for you, or perhaps people like you that want a certain level of comfort. If you can afford to attend the con, you can also afford the time and money to commute 20 minutes a day into the con. If you can afford the time to walk back to your room and drop off stuff you can also afford to walk back to your car and drop off stuff. It's not make or break for Indy or GenCon that you're personally inconvenienced.
 
Incoming arguments:
“But the con is not how it _used_ to be”
Get. Over. It. We all get older, things change. Despite Gencon getting bigger (this is a good thing btw!) Indy is still the best location. There are many other, smaller cons now if that’s what you’re looking for.
 
“My stay/level of comfort/con experience is different then everyone else’s because of X/Y/Z”
Yep. You might be a special case. I agree that special cases ought to have preferential treatment. It would make things easier for us if my buddy could get a connected room. Despite the fact that we haven’t we still always have an amazing time. If your needs are truly unique please try to get an ADA room. We all want you to come to the con and have a blast like the rest of us!
 
“GenCon would benefit from a different space as a convention because of size of halls/different city layout/different city culture/(insert any other reason).”
Perhaps? There are people who generously devote their time each year that make this con happen. It’s very likely that all your factors have been considered and Indy still came out on top. That’s a good thing! That means that we’re confident that Indy is the right choice! If another city ever makes a better offer and the folks that put this together agree that it’s a good move it’ll happen :)
 
Looking very much forward to seeing all of you for the 50th con!
 

Posted by lmengsol mhayward1978

mhayward1978 wrote:
armadilloal wrote:
lmengsol wrote:I don't know where more people don't see this as a fix. Mandalay Bay has 1.5 million feet of exhibit space where as the Indy Convention Center has 566,000. Mandalay Bay also has 3300 guest rooms nearly the connected amount that is in downtown Indy. When you add Luxor (which is next door) that's another 4400 hotel rooms. That exceed the capacity of Indy and they are all walkable. I am guessing you could get those rooms at or below the price point Indy is charging. More space, more walkable rooms, I don't see how this isn't a winner.

According to http://www.lvol.com/conventions/large.html, the largest convention coming up at the Mandalay Bay Convention Center is the JCK Annual Trade Show on June 5-8, at 39,000 attendees.Prices for a Resort Queen room on those dates?
6/4 - $327
6/5 - $470
6/6 - $470
6/7 - $327
That's a Monday-Thursday convention, so those are midweek rates.
Let's try another one.  The Licensing International Expo is there on May 23-25 and will have 24k attendees.  Throw in RECon's 37k at the LVCC (which runs from 5/22-5/24), and we're right on the 61k number Gen Con was at last year.  Rates for the Mandalay Bay's basic Resort Queen?
5/21 - $308
5/22 - $524
5/23 - $524
5/24 - $294
Again, those dates are Sunday through Wednesday.  
I really don't see a 60+k convention like Gen Con getting better rates there than they do in Indy.

Stop injecting facts into this debate!  How dare you!
 
You're not comparing apples to apples. May, June and October are the busiest convention months in Las Vegas -  August is not.

Posted by mhayward1978 lmengsol

lmengsol wrote:
mhayward1978 wrote:
armadilloal wrote:
lmengsol wrote:I don't know where more people don't see this as a fix. Mandalay Bay has 1.5 million feet of exhibit space where as the Indy Convention Center has 566,000. Mandalay Bay also has 3300 guest rooms nearly the connected amount that is in downtown Indy. When you add Luxor (which is next door) that's another 4400 hotel rooms. That exceed the capacity of Indy and they are all walkable. I am guessing you could get those rooms at or below the price point Indy is charging. More space, more walkable rooms, I don't see how this isn't a winner.

According to http://www.lvol.com/conventions/large.html, the largest convention coming up at the Mandalay Bay Convention Center is the JCK Annual Trade Show on June 5-8, at 39,000 attendees.Prices for a Resort Queen room on those dates?
6/4 - $327
6/5 - $470
6/6 - $470
6/7 - $327
That's a Monday-Thursday convention, so those are midweek rates.
Let's try another one.  The Licensing International Expo is there on May 23-25 and will have 24k attendees.  Throw in RECon's 37k at the LVCC (which runs from 5/22-5/24), and we're right on the 61k number Gen Con was at last year.  Rates for the Mandalay Bay's basic Resort Queen?
5/21 - $308
5/22 - $524
5/23 - $524
5/24 - $294
Again, those dates are Sunday through Wednesday.  
I really don't see a 60+k convention like Gen Con getting better rates there than they do in Indy.

Stop injecting facts into this debate!  How dare you!
You're not comparing apples to apples. May, June and October are the busiest convention months in Las Vegas -  August is not.

I wonder if there could be a reason for that....

https://www.vegas.com/weather/averages.html

I love it when it's 103 degrees in the shade at my game convention, and my card sleves melt onto my legacy decks!  But then again, I'm a Komodo Dragon.

Posted by roganca mhayward1978

mhayward1978 wrote:
lmengsol wrote:
mhayward1978 wrote:
armadilloal wrote:
lmengsol wrote:I don't know where more people don't see this as a fix. Mandalay Bay has 1.5 million feet of exhibit space where as the Indy Convention Center has 566,000. Mandalay Bay also has 3300 guest rooms nearly the connected amount that is in downtown Indy. When you add Luxor (which is next door) that's another 4400 hotel rooms. That exceed the capacity of Indy and they are all walkable. I am guessing you could get those rooms at or below the price point Indy is charging. More space, more walkable rooms, I don't see how this isn't a winner.

According to http://www.lvol.com/conventions/large.html, the largest convention coming up at the Mandalay Bay Convention Center is the JCK Annual Trade Show on June 5-8, at 39,000 attendees.Prices for a Resort Queen room on those dates?
6/4 - $327
6/5 - $470
6/6 - $470
6/7 - $327
That's a Monday-Thursday convention, so those are midweek rates.
Let's try another one.  The Licensing International Expo is there on May 23-25 and will have 24k attendees.  Throw in RECon's 37k at the LVCC (which runs from 5/22-5/24), and we're right on the 61k number Gen Con was at last year.  Rates for the Mandalay Bay's basic Resort Queen?
5/21 - $308
5/22 - $524
5/23 - $524
5/24 - $294
Again, those dates are Sunday through Wednesday.  
I really don't see a 60+k convention like Gen Con getting better rates there than they do in Indy.

Stop injecting facts into this debate!  How dare you!
You're not comparing apples to apples. May, June and October are the busiest convention months in Las Vegas -  August is not.

I wonder if there could be a reason for that....https://www.vegas.com/weather/averages.html
I love it when it's 103 degrees in the shade at my game convention, and my card sleves melt onto my legacy decks!  But then again, I'm a Komodo Dragon.
Heh heh, yeah, I've been in Vegas in August. I'd like to point out that the 103 you quote is just an average. It can sometimes be hotter!

Posted by quarex twosheds

twosheds wrote:While I never attended Gen Con in Milwaukee, my understanding is that in addition to the con outgrowing the venue, the city itself never really did much to embrace Gen Con.  Indy has done that.  The proverbial red carpet gets rolled out every year. Also, moving from Milwaukee to Indy had less of an impact because Indy was in the same general region, had better facilities, and Indy is embracing the idea of being a convention town.

The move from Milwaukee to Indianapolis was indeed pretty much night-and-day; it is hard to avoid emphasizing differences in things, particularly as the years wind on and your memories get a little iffy (and I see Gharris and Ethrdemon directly argue against what I am about to say), but the group I went with in the Milwaukee years had to completely re-adjust our standard jokes about being at Gen-Con for Indianapolis, because suddenly all the comments about how we could not wait to see the terror/loathing on the faces of all the mall food court employees when we walked in, or how we could not wait to find out how rude our hotel staff was to us this year when we tried to game in the lobby, was replaced with..."literally every single person we have encountered in a commercial transaction seems excited that we are here???"  Paradigm shift.  Kaboom!

I cannot necessarily envision that kind of welcoming attitude happening in a place that would see us as just another weekend event alongside the dozens of others happening nearby, like Las Vegas or Chicago.  Though I will admittedly almost certainly follow Gen-Con no matter where it goes.  Well...maybe not to, like, Mississippi.

shavenskaven wrote:
I am not even going to share how much I just had to pay... but if anyone is willing... There are rooms available at the Alexander right now. It's only .6 miles from convention center.

​No shame.  Gen-Con is special.  It is outside the normal bounds of rational behavior.  High five.
hendelbolaf wrote:My buddy who has also been going for decades and really, really wants to stay downtown booked a room at $500 or so a night in case he did not hit the housing jackpot. That is what people who are prepared to pay for that luxury do. They prepare in advance and ready themselves for the cost.

Same.  I did the traditional "book 11 months in advance for a decent rate" most of the years from 2003-2011?, or whichever year the Moto GP first overlapped and suddenly (perhaps because of that, perhaps not) that trick basically stopped working, in that most of the hotels were already showing as booked 11 months out, and the few that were not were needlessly expensive.  So...I booked the needlessly expensive hotels.  Now so far I have not had to use one of these emergency reservations since I do have a friend who keeps getting a good housing block room reliably, but I know it is important enough to me to be fiscally irresponsible, haha.  :)  Though I do remember a few years back some hotels had started charging people for cancelling their rooms for that block, even months out...never happened to me, but it could have been a specific chain issue.

Posted by nascragman asgelb

asgelb wrote:
And I know people are anti San Diego, but there is no better convention center than the one in San Diego.....I think the hotels attached to the convention center and within the Gaslamp are pretty significant, but I haven't checked the stats...All I know is that the 3-4 times I've been to comicon (which handles crowds of 120,000+) I would think that it could handle 60-70k quite well. And they could borrow the bus system comicon uses to connect hotels further away, which works quite well (unsure of operating costs).
Sure, a satellite Gencon may fail on the coast because everyone wants to go to the "real" Gencon, but if Gencon just up and moved to a new location, I'm sure it would do just fine. If I'm willing to fly to Indy, I'm willing to fly pretty much anywhere in the States.
It would just be a question if the City itself could handle Gencon after the hangover of Comicon just a few weeks before it...the locals may protest.
and what about Anaheim? Not enough rooms nearby? 
 

The west coast has been tried in the not so distant past.  It failed.  I'd rather go to San Diego than Anaheim, of course, but either way you're moving further away from two-thirds of the country.

2003–2006: Gen Con SoCal

Gen Con SoCal  2003  December 11–14, 2003   ACC  Anaheim, California  Attendance 4148
Gen Con SoCal  2004  December 2–5, 2004       ACC, Anaheim, California  Attendance 5559
Gen Con SoCal  2005  November 18–20, 2005   ACC, Anaheim, California  Attendance 6326
Gen Con SoCal  2006  November 16–19, 2006   ACC, Anaheim, California  Attendance 5840

Posted by rhone1

I went to Gen Con during the SoCal years and it was very fun...just a much smaller crowd than Gen Con.  It was in the fall, so attendance was blah but the location was fine and yes, there are many hotels nearby (Disneyland is next door and walking distance away).  San Diego would be fantastic and we know it could handle the crowd as it already handles more for Comic Con. I also can't think of a more pleasant city than San Diego.

Still, I really hope that Gen Con stays in Indianapolis.  It just feels like the best location to me.

Posted by gib_rebeg rhone1

rhone1 wrote:
I went to Gen Con during the SoCal years and it was very fun...just a much smaller crowd than Gen Con.  It was in the fall, so attendance was blah but the location was fine and yes, there are many hotels nearby (Disneyland is next door and walking distance away).  San Diego would be fantastic and we know it could handle the crowd as it already handles more for Comic Con. I also can't think of a more pleasant city than San Diego.
Still, I really hope that Gen Con stays in Indianapolis.  It just feels like the best location to me.
Gencon is not going to move any time soon. With the take-over of Lucas, we've drastically increased our space. Housing comes back as the only issue. And TBH no city anywhere can truly offer us what we really would like. Simply put, there will always be those forced to the outer hotels and have to commute in. No mater where we go.

Years back, I think only about 3 years I had a hotel room within walking distance of the CC in Milwaukee, 10+ years of going there. We made do. Last 3 years our group has been very lucky and gotten a DT room. This year I could only find one out of the block that is 15 miles out. Not the end of the world. Just means we have to do a bit more logistics planning to make it all work. And we've got 6 months to do it. (From when housing opened.)

I do realize there are those who may have needs that a DT room makes it easier for them. But in the end, sorry, if the dice didn't role your way, and you really - really want to go, you will think of how to make it work. And if it "Ruins my whole vacation", then look at other vacation ideas. Smaller Cons are growing in popularity for the very reason mentioned by others. Less crowded, cheaper and easier to attend. Or take a different kind of vacation. A romantic trip to the Caribbean for example.

Just don't let the details be the whole end of the world to you.

Posted by maijstral2

50k+ people of course not everyone is going to get downtown hotel rooms. I'm an old man with bad knees and would love a downtown hotel room for ease(and so I can sleep past 7am :P) but its not going to ruin my vacation that I'm staying at southport this year because I failed the lottery. I've been going to Indy Gencon for the entire time its been in Indy and I've failed to get a downtown room twice(and failed at the housing portal 4 times) and both times I was disappointed but not outraged I just got an outlayer hotel. The only problems I had were with parking I just used my car as a drop off point instead of my hotel room and took rest where I could find it, like the auction room sit down and maybe find something interesting to buy. Now with Gate 10 parking I feel that even the chore of finding a decent parking place is taken care of and with a guaranteed parking spot I probably don't even need to roll in at 7ish.

Posted by njseahawksfan rhone1

rhone1 wrote:
San Diego would be fantastic and we know it could handle the crowd as it already handles more for Comic Con.

I really wish people would stop spreading this misinformation.  SDCC is *smaller* than GenCon and has been for a few years now.

SDCC doesn't publish unique attendee numbers, just total turnstile attendance.  GenCon publishes both.

So for instance, last year GenCon had 201,852 in turnstile attendance.  SDCC had 167,000.

Also SDCC caps attendees, so if you think people complain about not getting a downtown room, just imagine what it would be like if GenCon did what SDCC did and limited the number of passes to get in!  Zoinks!
 

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