Annual "Make Housing Fair" Discussion (Summary)
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Posted by gib_rebeg jpaulchell_15
#76

jpaulchell_15 wrote:
News flash:
It may be that some company is buying badges just to secure rooms and then flipping them online.  We saw the Hilton downtown available through some hotel booking site for 460 per night.  A nice little profit.  Spend $100 or so for a badge, get a room for 4 nights, flip for 3 to 5 times the cost.
Just like the secondary market for concert and show tickets.
How does GEN CON prevent this?
There is no way to stop 100% of it. I've seen the odd person last year offering a room on various sites offering rooms for money. Send me the money, I'll add your name to the rooms guest list.

But locking them to the badges the way they are doing is the best way. It really did cut down on the room scalping a lot.

They might still have some backdoor way of scalping the rooms, but they still must eat the $110 badge cost to do it.

Doing it this way eats into the profitability of scalping the rooms, by the time they try adding in their gain and taxes, they're asking well over $500/night which is the same as what out of block rooms are going for. So the risk to the people wanting the rooms go way up to the possible gains. Making it better to the buyee to simply book direct from the hotel, then a shady scalper.

Posted by squirecam gib_rebeg
#77

gib_rebeg wrote:
jpaulchell_15 wrote:
A thought here:  GEN CON should consider a few things for next year:
1. Attendees that are planning to be there all 4 days (4 hotel nights) should have preference for downtown over people with 2 or 3 nights
2. Families with under 16 children.
3. Families needing two rooms - would be very nice to be in the same hotel for obvious reasons. GEN CON does not in any way facilitate this and in past we have been split across mutiple hotels.
MINIMUM NIGHT STAY RESTRICTIONSMinimum night stay restrictions are in effect for all hotels in the downtown area. Requests for hotels in the downtown area must consist of three or more consecutive dates and must include the night of Saturday August 3, 2019. Minimum night stay restrictions will remain in place throughout the housing registration period. Room assignments at suburban hotels are not generally subject to minimum night stay restrictions, though some exceptions may exist.
didn’t they do this due to the year that the bikers bought one night rooms, preventing a lot of people from staying downtown?

Posted by gib_rebeg squirecam
#78

squirecam wrote:
gib_rebeg wrote:
jpaulchell_15 wrote:
A thought here:  GEN CON should consider a few things for next year:
1. Attendees that are planning to be there all 4 days (4 hotel nights) should have preference for downtown over people with 2 or 3 nights
2. Families with under 16 children.
3. Families needing two rooms - would be very nice to be in the same hotel for obvious reasons. GEN CON does not in any way facilitate this and in past we have been split across mutiple hotels.
MINIMUM NIGHT STAY RESTRICTIONSMinimum night stay restrictions are in effect for all hotels in the downtown area. Requests for hotels in the downtown area must consist of three or more consecutive dates and must include the night of Saturday August 3, 2019. Minimum night stay restrictions will remain in place throughout the housing registration period. Room assignments at suburban hotels are not generally subject to minimum night stay restrictions, though some exceptions may exist.
didn’t they do this due to the year that the bikers bought one night rooms, preventing a lot of people from staying downtown?
I think it was about that year, but the Bikers shouldn't have affected us because you had to attend Gencon to get the rooms. It had been a problem for a while where people would book 1 or 2 nights, just butchering the DT housing block. And people begging GC allow people to hodgepodge a 4 night stay together from what was left.

Posted by buffythecatslayer jpaulchell_15
#79

jpaulchell_15 wrote:
A thought here:  GEN CON should consider a few things for next year:
1. Attendees that are planning to be there all 4 days (4 hotel nights) should have preference for downtown over people with 2 or 3 nights
2. Families with under 16 children.
3. Families needing two rooms - would be very nice to be in the same hotel for obvious reasons. GEN CON does not in any way facilitate this and in past we have been split across mutiple hotels.

1) Already handled
2) Just because you decide to spawn some critters, and drag them to Gen Con, should not give any preference.  Joking aside, if you want to travel with children, then you need to handle it, don't expect those of us without kids to be disadvantaged.
ETA: A system like that would be abused. Since children under 10 don’t get badges, people would just claim they were bringing a kid to get the preferred slot.
3) Definitely agree; already suggested a way to handle it by being able to buy all rooms with one entry to the housing portal.

Posted by squirecam buffythecatslayer
#80

buffythecatslayer wrote:
One thing that would vastly improve the housing portal is to allow you to book all your rooms at the same time, in one request.  I had 3 rooms to book this year, and had I been lucky enough to get a downtown hotel, chances are good that by the time I finished filling out the first room request information, the hotel would have already sold out before I could get the 2nd and 3rd requests in.  Wasn't a problem for me this year, but I'm sure there are some people who have had this issue.
Basically, you would go into the portal and immediately pick number & types of the rooms, then would have maybe 15 minutes to finish filling out all the names & billing info until you were kicked out and the rooms were released back to the system.
I would agree with this as long it was all on one account and one lotto time.

Posted by buffythecatslayer
#81

Yes, one account buys all the rooms at their allotted time.

Posted by tonythetoyman
#82

It is very easy to get multiple rooms in the same hotel... stay 8-12 miles out.  You should not be able to get more than one room at a time... this would make it far worse than it is on balance.

Posted by quarex
#83

Beyond the fact that I am confused to see anyone saying money solves this problem (it is not like the VIG program has much turnover year-over-year; rich people had to get in a decade+ ago in order to have money solve their problem), I am also confused that nobody seems to be pointing out the other sure-fire way to get a downtown hotel, one I have been using for like 15 years with success: buy your room a year in advance.

Look, there are some places on the Internet where you would get made fun of for suggesting it is reasonable to buy your hotel a year in advance, but like, all of us here are basically fanatics, and I have no idea why my tactic is so uncommon.  Other than a couple of years suspiciously overlapping with the time the Moto GP was in Indianapolis at the same time, I have never failed to get a downtown hotel this way, and I believe I only paid about $25/night more than the Gen-Con discount rate (which, sure, that adds up, but particularly if you are splitting the cost of the hotel room it is barely even noticeable).

Posted by mhayward1978 jpaulchell_15
#84

jpaulchell_15 wrote:
A thought here:  GEN CON should consider a few things for next year:
1. Attendees that are planning to be there all 4 days (4 hotel nights) should have preference for downtown over people with 2 or 3 nights
2. Families with under 16 children.
3. Families needing two rooms - would be very nice to be in the same hotel for obvious reasons. GEN CON does not in any way facilitate this and in past we have been split across mutiple hotels.
 

Minor point - they sort of already do #1 - to qualify for a Downtown room you must stay at least 3 nights and must include the night of Saturday August 3rd.

So no one is getting downtown housing in block for 2 nights, and all 3 night stays are either F/Sa/Su or Th/F/Sa (or, I suppose Sa/Su/M but what kind of maniac would do that...).

I wouldn't object to strengthening this to a 4 night minimum which must include Th/F/Sa night - but I don't think it would change much.  If you were able to get Th/F/Sa today you could easily get W out of block somewhere at a reasonable price.  Same for Sunday night.

Posted by rayken quarex
#85

quarex wrote:
Beyond the fact that I am confused to see anyone saying money solves this problem (it is not like the VIG program has much turnover year-over-year; rich people had to get in a decade+ ago in order to have money solve their problem), I am also confused that nobody seems to be pointing out the other sure-fire way to get a downtown hotel, one I have been using for like 15 years with success: buy your room a year in advance.
Look, there are some places on the Internet where you would get made fun of for suggesting it is reasonable to buy your hotel a year in advance, but like, all of us here are basically fanatics, and I have no idea why my tactic is so uncommon.  Other than a couple of years suspiciously overlapping with the time the Moto GP was in Indianapolis at the same time, I have never failed to get a downtown hotel this way, and I believe I only paid about $25/night more than the Gen-Con discount rate (which, sure, that adds up, but particularly if you are splitting the cost of the hotel room it is barely even noticeable).

I usually do not see downtown Marriott or JW Marriott with open rooms for the GenCon week under 350-450 dollars a night. Typically that block isn't open or available at all throughout the year.

Posted by fethbone rayken
#86

rayken wrote:
quarex wrote:
Beyond the fact that I am confused to see anyone saying money solves this problem (it is not like the VIG program has much turnover year-over-year; rich people had to get in a decade+ ago in order to have money solve their problem), I am also confused that nobody seems to be pointing out the other sure-fire way to get a downtown hotel, one I have been using for like 15 years with success: buy your room a year in advance.
Look, there are some places on the Internet where you would get made fun of for suggesting it is reasonable to buy your hotel a year in advance, but like, all of us here are basically fanatics, and I have no idea why my tactic is so uncommon.  Other than a couple of years suspiciously overlapping with the time the Moto GP was in Indianapolis at the same time, I have never failed to get a downtown hotel this way, and I believe I only paid about $25/night more than the Gen-Con discount rate (which, sure, that adds up, but particularly if you are splitting the cost of the hotel room it is barely even noticeable).

I usually do not see downtown Marriott or JW Marriott with open rooms for the GenCon week under 350-450 dollars a night. Typically that block isn't open or available at all throughout the year.
It is true that if you check diligently starting a year before the convention, you can find out of block rooms. You may have to check multiple times as I have seen dates go from "not available" to magically available  later in the day or a few days later. Not sure what hotel Quarex is booking, but the out-of-block rate has always been significantly more than the in-block rate for the hotels I look at. The OOB rate for Crowne Plaza was about $425/night for this year when I booked in in August 2018, while the in-block rate was in the $250 ish range.

Posted by quarex
#87

I always go for the Embassy Suites personally, and the handful of times it has been sold out I booked either the Conrad or the admittedly-not-attached-but-still-right-there Homewood Suites.

Yeah looks like my pre-tax rate is $309/night, and my V.I.G. friend said his rate at the Embassy Suites was $280/night?

Posted by nhopper tony_4
#88

tony_4 wrote:
Fair or not, I don't know.  I don't like the new system as much.  For people who used to get on right at noon and queue up there chances of getting a DT room were much better.  I've been to 20 GenCons, first one in 1994, obviously that predates indy or even electronic hotel registration. ( We used to pre-reg by mail in, as crazy as that sounds) and I never failed to get a room downtown until the system changed.  It seems to reward those people who didn't have the due diligence to get on and queue up at noon, maybe they felt they were too good for the queue, I don't know.  If you are successful one way 18 times, then something changes and you are not successful any more, I would say something is broken right?  In all fairness I did get a DT room this year, by total luck of time slotting, not because of any effort on my part.
Just because the "Its more fair now!" people shout louder, doesn't make them right.  Its not really a deal breaker for me, but it does change the way you have to approach the convention.  Maybe its just part of the bigger picture of GenCon moving away from their gamer base and trying to be more like Popcorn or ComiCon.  I think the "Pay to Win" philosophy of the VIG system is problematic.  The benefits of it do not equal the cost, I guess people would just do it to guarantee a good room.  It seems like the kind of thing that would go against the spirit of the convention.  I have the means, but until the value of the cost is there, it just seems kind of a waste.
 
I totally agree with you on this.
 

Posted by buffythecatslayer tony_4
#89

tony_4 wrote:
....  It seems to reward those people who didn't have the due diligence to get on and queue up at noon, maybe they felt they were too good for the queue, I don't know. ...

And it penalizes those that have spotty Internet, or a large number of hops to the servers.  Not everyone is lazy.

Posted by lehane buffythecatslayer
#90

buffythecatslayer wrote:
tony_4 wrote:
....  It seems to reward those people who didn't have the due diligence to get on and queue up at noon, maybe they felt they were too good for the queue, I don't know. ...

And it penalizes those that have spotty Internet, or a large number of hops to the servers.  Not everyone is lazy.
Or those who have to work on Sundays when most things open up and can't be at a computer. 

Posted by buffythecatslayer
#91

Or those who have to work on Sundays when most things open up and can't be at a computer. 

If that's the case, you're pretty much hosed by either system.  :-(

Posted by maijstral2 lehane
#92

lehane wrote:
buffythecatslayer wrote:
tony_4 wrote:
....  It seems to reward those people who didn't have the due diligence to get on and queue up at noon, maybe they felt they were too good for the queue, I don't know. ...

And it penalizes those that have spotty Internet, or a large number of hops to the servers.  Not everyone is lazy.
Or those who have to work on Sundays when most things open up and can't be at a computer. 
I work Sundays and have for over a decade and I just take a 10 minute break at the appropriate time and use my phone. I am sort of glad for the lottery system since the previous free for alls meant I had to spend quite a bit of time at first opening just trying to connect then dealing with the drops and crashes and sometimes had to just give up and go back to work. Now I know exactly when I need to go on break and get it done within a few minutes one way or the other i.e. I either get the room I want or know I won't be getting a downtown room.

Posted by angelhelly fethbone
#93

fethbone wrote:
rayken wrote:
quarex wrote:
Beyond the fact that I am confused to see anyone saying money solves this problem (it is not like the VIG program has much turnover year-over-year; rich people had to get in a decade+ ago in order to have money solve their problem), I am also confused that nobody seems to be pointing out the other sure-fire way to get a downtown hotel, one I have been using for like 15 years with success: buy your room a year in advance.
Look, there are some places on the Internet where you would get made fun of for suggesting it is reasonable to buy your hotel a year in advance, but like, all of us here are basically fanatics, and I have no idea why my tactic is so uncommon.  Other than a couple of years suspiciously overlapping with the time the Moto GP was in Indianapolis at the same time, I have never failed to get a downtown hotel this way, and I believe I only paid about $25/night more than the Gen-Con discount rate (which, sure, that adds up, but particularly if you are splitting the cost of the hotel room it is barely even noticeable).

I usually do not see downtown Marriott or JW Marriott with open rooms for the GenCon week under 350-450 dollars a night. Typically that block isn't open or available at all throughout the year.
It is true that if you check diligently starting a year before the convention, you can find out of block rooms. You may have to check multiple times as I have seen dates go from "not available" to magically available  later in the day or a few days later. Not sure what hotel Quarex is booking, but the out-of-block rate has always been significantly more than the in-block rate for the hotels I look at. The OOB rate for Crowne Plaza was about $425/night for this year when I booked in in August 2018, while the in-block rate was in the $250 ish range.
It is possible to find reasonable rates. Meridian was available for $260ish a night non refundable not so long ago.

It is dedication and must be willing to pay upfront. But it is possible
 

Posted by lehane maijstral2
#94

bobvilla wrote:
lehane wrote:
buffythecatslayer wrote:
tony_4 wrote:
....  It seems to reward those people who didn't have the due diligence to get on and queue up at noon, maybe they felt they were too good for the queue, I don't know. ...

And it penalizes those that have spotty Internet, or a large number of hops to the servers.  Not everyone is lazy.
Or those who have to work on Sundays when most things open up and can't be at a computer. 
I work Sundays and have for over a decade and I just take a 10 minute break at the appropriate time and use my phone. I am sort of glad for the lottery system since the previous free for alls meant I had to spend quite a bit of time at first opening just trying to connect then dealing with the drops and crashes and sometimes had to just give up and go back to work. Now I know exactly when I need to go on break and get it done within a few minutes one way or the other i.e. I either get the room I want or know I won't be getting a downtown room.
I prefer the lottery as well. That said I work in a secure area that doesn't allow cell phones.  :(

I am glad one of my other annual vacations is a trip to Gatlinburg in May when events usually open up. 

Posted by bigfathairyguy mhayward1978
#95

mhayward1978 wrote:
jpaulchell_15 wrote:
A thought here:  GEN CON should consider a few things for next year:
1. Attendees that are planning to be there all 4 days (4 hotel nights) should have preference for downtown over people with 2 or 3 nights
2. Families with under 16 children.
3. Families needing two rooms - would be very nice to be in the same hotel for obvious reasons. GEN CON does not in any way facilitate this and in past we have been split across mutiple hotels.

Minor point - they sort of already do #1 - to qualify for a Downtown room you must stay at least 3 nights and must include the night of Saturday August 3rd.So no one is getting downtown housing in block for 2 nights, and all 3 night stays are either F/Sa/Su or Th/F/Sa (or, I suppose Sa/Su/M but what kind of maniac would do that...).
I wouldn't object to strengthening this to a 4 night minimum which must include Th/F/Sa night - but I don't think it would change much.  If you were able to get Th/F/Sa today you could easily get W out of block somewhere at a reasonable price.  Same for Sunday night.

I prefer the lottery overall. I think switching to requiring more nights would be a great way to improve the system. They could simply open it up for longer stays earlier and shorter stays later. It would be good for the hotels and likely lead to better rates for Gencon. There are a lot of people that wouldn't pay for the extra nights and would have to wait for the lower night stays to open up but they had a chance to book a longer stay if downtown was that important. And just like Disney World the longer people stay the more money they will spend.

I got a 3pm time this year and I still like the lottery better. I booked out of block downtown. Also to anyone who says different staying downtown does make the convention better. How much may vary but it does make it better. When I lived in Indy I still got a hotel room downtown.

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