Shuttles
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Posted by squirecam npiccini
#26

npiccini wrote:
bugwar wrote:
squirecam wrote:Unfortunately Indy lacks proper rail service between its hotels and convention space/downtown which other cities have and make it much easier. 

I guess the taxpayers have better things to do with their money.
Rail ain't cheap."The cost of light rail construction varies widely, largely depending on the amount of tunneling and elevated structures required. A survey of North American light rail projects shows that costs of most LRT systems range from $15 million to over $100 million per mile."
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_rail
How many miles of rail were you planning on charging the citizens of Indianapolis for?
I don’t think anyone is suggesting actually charging the citizens of Indy for a rail system...although the evidence is pretty clear that its a responsible choice for the city considering the revenue tourism and conventions bring in.  What is reasonable is demanding GenCon relocate to a location that does offer this... or simply not attending...
lets be honest - they aren’t going anywhere and most people won’t boycott so its back to a pipe dream and we can stop arguing about it
Actually, its worth talking about because the state legislators want it too...

https://www.ibj.com/articles/72489-house-approves-bill-to-lift-light-rail-ban-in-central-indiana

Posted by selene314 squirecam
#27

squirecam wrote:
npiccini wrote:
bugwar wrote:
squirecam wrote:Unfortunately Indy lacks proper rail service between its hotels and convention space/downtown which other cities have and make it much easier. 

I guess the taxpayers have better things to do with their money.
Rail ain't cheap."The cost of light rail construction varies widely, largely depending on the amount of tunneling and elevated structures required. A survey of North American light rail projects shows that costs of most LRT systems range from $15 million to over $100 million per mile."
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_rail
How many miles of rail were you planning on charging the citizens of Indianapolis for?
I don’t think anyone is suggesting actually charging the citizens of Indy for a rail system...although the evidence is pretty clear that its a responsible choice for the city considering the revenue tourism and conventions bring in.  What is reasonable is demanding GenCon relocate to a location that does offer this... or simply not attending...
lets be honest - they aren’t going anywhere and most people won’t boycott so its back to a pipe dream and we can stop arguing about it
Actually, its worth talking about because the state legislators want it too...https://www.ibj.com/articles/72489-house-approves-bill-to-lift-light-rail-ban-in-central-indiana

There's a BAN ???
I know that historically the auto and rubber industries did some shady things to kill the railroads. But in the age of climate change, how does a city get away with outright banning mass transit?

As for paying for it - Indianapolis has more than sufficient population density that light rail would be more economical than cars, if only people didn't insist on having cars too.

Posted by squirecam selene314
#28

selene314 wrote:
squirecam wrote:
npiccini wrote:
bugwar wrote:
squirecam wrote:Unfortunately Indy lacks proper rail service between its hotels and convention space/downtown which other cities have and make it much easier. 

I guess the taxpayers have better things to do with their money.
Rail ain't cheap."The cost of light rail construction varies widely, largely depending on the amount of tunneling and elevated structures required. A survey of North American light rail projects shows that costs of most LRT systems range from $15 million to over $100 million per mile."
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_rail
How many miles of rail were you planning on charging the citizens of Indianapolis for?
I don’t think anyone is suggesting actually charging the citizens of Indy for a rail system...although the evidence is pretty clear that its a responsible choice for the city considering the revenue tourism and conventions bring in.  What is reasonable is demanding GenCon relocate to a location that does offer this... or simply not attending...
lets be honest - they aren’t going anywhere and most people won’t boycott so its back to a pipe dream and we can stop arguing about it
Actually, its worth talking about because the state legislators want it too...https://www.ibj.com/articles/72489-house-approves-bill-to-lift-light-rail-ban-in-central-indiana

There's a BAN ???
I know that historically the auto and rubber industries did some shady things to kill the railroads. But in the age of climate change, how does a city get away with outright banning mass transit?As for paying for it - Indianapolis has more than sufficient population density that light rail would be more economical than cars, if only people didn't insist on having cars too.
indygo wants its inadequate bus monopoly protected?

Posted by dranthor
#29

of course it would be fair to raise the price of the ticket for such a thing.  The cost of the ticket currently goes towards hundreds of events and space that you won’t step into or participate in.  So you’re lucky to have a walking distance hotel.  Good for you.  But you should understand that that’s entirely by luck of the lottery time slot.
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Actually I did not have a good luck time in the lottery time slot was after 6 pm for me I got my slot by paying for it outside of the housing portal As for hundreds of events and spaces I won't step into or participate...I pay for those events I'm participating in so .. again . not fair to those who would not use the shuttle to have to pay for them by raising badge prices.

Posted by sithina
#30

The shuttles ended up being a disaster, pretty much everyone agrees with that. Given how abundant ride-sharing is  downtown, and how easy it is for savvy con attendees to call up an Uber/Lyft to get them to and from the con (and not have to worry about multiple stops or waiting for a shuttle to arrive only to realize you'll be waiting even longer for the next shuttle because all the seats are taken) and all around downtown and the outskirts, if needed, I think there's no reason for Gen Con to consider trying to bring the shuttle service back from the grave. It's a logistics nightmare for them and whatever company they outsource it to, with very little coming back to them in return (except complaints, because people will never be happy with the shuttle service, no matter what they insist).  They probably figure it's better to wash their hands of it and let their attendees work transport out themselves. It's certainly more cost-efficient for Gen Con. Teaming up with Gate 10 for parking and the shuttles to/from their lots is the most we'll likely ever see again, and just look at all the complaints even that service (which was highly demanded for years) gets every single year.  There are cabs, shuttles (not contracted) and ride-share opportunities galore right outside the ICC (and on-call), and even services that normally don't do the pick-you-up-and-drop-you-off thing most of the year offer it during Gen Con, knowing they'll make money. You can't fault Gen Con for their logic in not bothering again, given the very recent bad history of "official" Gen Con shuttles.

Posted by squirecam sithina
#31

sithina wrote:
The shuttles ended up being a disaster, pretty much everyone agrees with that. Given how abundant ride-sharing is  downtown, and how easy it is for savvy con attendees to call up an Uber/Lyft to get them to and from the con (and not have to worry about multiple stops or waiting for a shuttle to arrive only to realize you'll be waiting even longer for the next shuttle because all the seats are taken) and all around downtown and the outskirts, if needed, I think there's no reason for Gen Con to consider trying to bring the shuttle service back from the grave. It's a logistics nightmare for them and whatever company they outsource it to, with very little coming back to them in return (except complaints, because people will never be happy with the shuttle service, no matter what they insist).  They probably figure it's better to wash their hands of it and let their attendees work transport out themselves. It's certainly more cost-efficient for Gen Con. Teaming up with Gate 10 for parking and the shuttles to/from their lots is the most we'll likely ever see again, and just look at all the complaints even that service (which was highly demanded for years) gets every single year.  There are cabs, shuttles (not contracted) and ride-share opportunities galore right outside the ICC (and on-call), and even services that normally don't do the pick-you-up-and-drop-you-off thing most of the year offer it during Gen Con, knowing they'll make money. You can't fault Gen Con for their logic in not bothering again, given the very recent bad history of "official" Gen Con shuttles.
But there is. Larger groups either need to all wait to share a cab or go back to an outlying hotel individually. This greatly increases the costs. A $50 shuttle pass allows those groups to not worry and save money.

Posted by buffythecatslayer
#32

of course it would be fair to raise the price of the ticket for such a thing [shuttles].  The cost of the ticket currently goes towards hundreds of events and space that you won’t step into or participate in.  So you’re lucky to have a walking distance hotel.  Good for you.  But you should understand that that’s entirely by luck of the lottery time slot.

People bring or rent cars, have connected hotels, or use ride-sharing or taxis because even if there were shuttles, they wouldn't want to wait.

So, everyone who doesn't need a shuttle should subsidize the cost for the minority that do?  If Gen Con or Indy can get a shuttle service that would work, great, but don't expect everyone, who might already be paying for a different transport method, to pay for them.  You want to use the shuttle, you pay for it.

Posted by aaronmlopez bugwar
#33

bugwar wrote:
aaronmlopez wrote:It does not make sense for Indianapolis to invest in an improved public transportation system when it would be unused 340 days of the year. 
 
Um, actually ...."Our most recent figures show Indianapolis receiving 28.2 million annual visitors, who spend roughly $4.9 billion dollars. Visitor spending supports more than 77,800 full-time equivalent employment positions in our hospitality industry. Tourism also produces $1.1 billion in tax receipts each year - including $682 million in local government tax. "
Source: https://www.visitindy.com/indianapolis-about-visit-indy


While I understand the number of visitors to Indianapolis and their economic impact, many of those visitors are the one-day type who drive in for the day, and then leave that evening. Things like sporting events, the State Fair, and others draw people in for one day, not requiring hotel stays. If you look at the Indianapolis convention schedule, where a large number of people are staying downtown), the events with the largest number of attendees are only active for about 25 total days during the year. Even the Indy 500 and Firefighters Convention (which draw much more than Gen Con) are only there for 14 days total, with the majority of visitors only being in Indianapolis for two-three days max. The city is only overwhelmed with visitors for approximately 25 days each year. Again... leaving 340 days/year where a public transportation system would be unused. Therefore, a public transportation system is not economically feasible.

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