Official Gen Con cancellation questions
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Posted by dballing mikeboozer
#26

mikeboozer wrote:
itsugat wrote:
Please consider extending the same time slots to the hotel lottery for 2021, or is there any way to keep our hotel reservations for 2021?

This is just not a fair policy for everyone. People with preferable time slots will be in favor of it and people without them will not be in favor.Mike

Ehhhhhh, no, it's exactly as fair as the randomization process was in the first place.

It's simply saying "your randomly selected 2020 time is now your randomly selected 2021 time" since 2020 didn't happen.

From a logical perspective, that's not in any way unfair. The random thing you got but didn't get to see results from is the same random thing you get to see results from in the future.

There may be plenty of other valid reasons not to do so, but I don't think you can make a valid case on a "fairness" basis.

Let me put it another way: You're GM'ing a session, and you move a monster into melee range. A player swings and gets a natural 20. You say "oh wait, that orc couldn't move", and pull it back. You move another orc into melee range instead. Would you tell that player that "it's only fair" that they re-roll, or let them carry the 20 over to the replacement orc?

I can certainly think of some GMs who would force the re-roll, but we don't generally speak highly of them. :-)

 

Posted by andrewj.rager
#27

Thank you for the continued updates on the on going situation Mike. Sad to hear Gen Con 2020 has gone the way of the dodo but looking forward to Gen Con Online and Gen Con 2021. Happy to roll our badges over.  Hope everyone there is doing well.

If Rolling With Roc can help with at all with Gen Con online. I’d love to be of any help I can. 

Posted by kerg
#28

Question on donating.   Was that donating additional money or donating your badge so it doesn't roll to 2021?  (or both)

Thanks

P.S You probably won't get into the details, but hopefully this cancellation was with the understanding from Indianapolis from a contractual standpoint and an already bad situation wasn't made worse.

Posted by insane
#29

if people are refunding their VIG pass would it be possible to pay for the VIG pass now?  I would happily pay now for a VIG pass in 2021 and I would assume that would help out with the finances

Posted by jcirillo1971 dballing
#30

dballing wrote:
mikeboozer wrote:
itsugat wrote:
Please consider extending the same time slots to the hotel lottery for 2021, or is there any way to keep our hotel reservations for 2021?

This is just not a fair policy for everyone. People with preferable time slots will be in favor of it and people without them will not be in favor.Mike

Ehhhhhh, no, it's exactly as fair as the randomization process was in the first place.It's simply saying "your randomly selected 2020 time is now your randomly selected 2021 time" since 2020 didn't happen.
From a logical perspective, that's not in any way unfair. The random thing you got but didn't get to see results from is the same random thing you get to see results from in the future.
There may be plenty of other valid reasons not to do so, but I don't think you can make a valid case on a "fairness" basis.
Let me put it another way: You're GM'ing a session, and you move a monster into melee range. A player swings and gets a natural 20. You say "oh wait, that orc couldn't move", and pull it back. You move another orc into melee range instead. Would you tell that player that "it's only fair" that they re-roll, or let them carry the 20 over to the replacement orc?
I can certainly think of some GMs who would force the re-roll, but we don't generally speak highly of them. :-)
 
Its not exactly fair to people who did not even register for 2020 but are doing so for 2021.  Starting from scratch is the only way to go at this point.  At this point, we should be grateful there is still a GenCon 2021

Posted by ataradan
#31

If we let our badge roll over to next year, but then later find out that the timing won’t work out/what have you, will it still be possible to cancel that badge next year? Aka will normal cancellation policies apply for badges rolled over to 2021. 

Posted by deadsaidfred
#32

Rolling it forward - see everyone next year- stay safe...

Posted by ethanluc jcirillo1971
#33

jcirillo1971 wrote:
dballing wrote:
mikeboozer wrote:
itsugat wrote:
Please consider extending the same time slots to the hotel lottery for 2021, or is there any way to keep our hotel reservations for 2021?

This is just not a fair policy for everyone. People with preferable time slots will be in favor of it and people without them will not be in favor.Mike

Ehhhhhh, no, it's exactly as fair as the randomization process was in the first place.It's simply saying "your randomly selected 2020 time is now your randomly selected 2021 time" since 2020 didn't happen.
From a logical perspective, that's not in any way unfair. The random thing you got but didn't get to see results from is the same random thing you get to see results from in the future.
There may be plenty of other valid reasons not to do so, but I don't think you can make a valid case on a "fairness" basis.
Let me put it another way: You're GM'ing a session, and you move a monster into melee range. A player swings and gets a natural 20. You say "oh wait, that orc couldn't move", and pull it back. You move another orc into melee range instead. Would you tell that player that "it's only fair" that they re-roll, or let them carry the 20 over to the replacement orc?
I can certainly think of some GMs who would force the re-roll, but we don't generally speak highly of them. :-)
Its not exactly fair to people who did not even register for 2020 but are doing so for 2021.  Starting from scratch is the only way to go at this point.  At this point, we should be grateful there is still a GenCon 2021

Exactly. There will be people for whom 2021 is their first Gen Con.  And there will be people who registered for 2020 that will not return in 2021.  The population of people using the hotel system will change. It would not be feasible to carry people's position over.  Sorry for your loss. 

Posted by joshuaeric dballing
#34

dballing wrote:
mikeboozer wrote:
itsugat wrote:
Please consider extending the same time slots to the hotel lottery for 2021, or is there any way to keep our hotel reservations for 2021?

This is just not a fair policy for everyone. People with preferable time slots will be in favor of it and people without them will not be in favor.Mike

Ehhhhhh, no, it's exactly as fair as the randomization process was in the first place.It's simply saying "your randomly selected 2020 time is now your randomly selected 2021 time" since 2020 didn't happen.
From a logical perspective, that's not in any way unfair. The random thing you got but didn't get to see results from is the same random thing you get to see results from in the future.
There may be plenty of other valid reasons not to do so, but I don't think you can make a valid case on a "fairness" basis.
Let me put it another way: You're GM'ing a session, and you move a monster into melee range. A player swings and gets a natural 20. You say "oh wait, that orc couldn't move", and pull it back. You move another orc into melee range instead. Would you tell that player that "it's only fair" that they re-roll, or let them carry the 20 over to the replacement orc?
I can certainly think of some GMs who would force the re-roll, but we don't generally speak highly of them. :-)

please stop. you are not getting preferential treatment for 2021 because you got lucky in 2020 and then it was canceled. 

Posted by dballing jcirillo1971
#35

jcirillo1971 wrote:
dballing wrote:
mikeboozer wrote:
itsugat wrote:
Please consider extending the same time slots to the hotel lottery for 2021, or is there any way to keep our hotel reservations for 2021?

This is just not a fair policy for everyone. People with preferable time slots will be in favor of it and people without them will not be in favor.Mike

Ehhhhhh, no, it's exactly as fair as the randomization process was in the first place.It's simply saying "your randomly selected 2020 time is now your randomly selected 2021 time" since 2020 didn't happen.
From a logical perspective, that's not in any way unfair. The random thing you got but didn't get to see results from is the same random thing you get to see results from in the future.
There may be plenty of other valid reasons not to do so, but I don't think you can make a valid case on a "fairness" basis.
Let me put it another way: You're GM'ing a session, and you move a monster into melee range. A player swings and gets a natural 20. You say "oh wait, that orc couldn't move", and pull it back. You move another orc into melee range instead. Would you tell that player that "it's only fair" that they re-roll, or let them carry the 20 over to the replacement orc?
I can certainly think of some GMs who would force the re-roll, but we don't generally speak highly of them. :-)
Its not exactly fair to people who did not even register for 2020 but are doing so for 2021.  Starting from scratch is the only way to go at this point.  At this point, we should be grateful there is still a GenCon 2021

They can re-roll for a time and maybe get an early slot. Let anyone who legit didn't get a time in 2020 get a random time from the entire range in 2021.

That shouldn't be terribly difficult to achieve.

Sure there's some corner cases where you can try to game the system (get crummy 2020 time, get refund, have mate do the 2021 request) but in the grand scheme, letting that happens still seems more fair than taking away people's luck.

Posted by kerg insane
#36

insane wrote:
if people are refunding their VIG pass would it be possible to pay for the VIG pass now?  I would happily pay now for a VIG pass in 2021 and I would assume that would help out with the finances

Alot of people would probably.  I know I would.

Posted by dballing joshuaeric
#37

joshuaeric wrote:
dballing wrote:
mikeboozer wrote:
itsugat wrote:
Please consider extending the same time slots to the hotel lottery for 2021, or is there any way to keep our hotel reservations for 2021?

This is just not a fair policy for everyone. People with preferable time slots will be in favor of it and people without them will not be in favor.Mike

Ehhhhhh, no, it's exactly as fair as the randomization process was in the first place.It's simply saying "your randomly selected 2020 time is now your randomly selected 2021 time" since 2020 didn't happen.
From a logical perspective, that's not in any way unfair. The random thing you got but didn't get to see results from is the same random thing you get to see results from in the future.
There may be plenty of other valid reasons not to do so, but I don't think you can make a valid case on a "fairness" basis.
Let me put it another way: You're GM'ing a session, and you move a monster into melee range. A player swings and gets a natural 20. You say "oh wait, that orc couldn't move", and pull it back. You move another orc into melee range instead. Would you tell that player that "it's only fair" that they re-roll, or let them carry the 20 over to the replacement orc?
I can certainly think of some GMs who would force the re-roll, but we don't generally speak highly of them. :-)

please stop. you are not getting preferential treatment for 2021 because you got lucky in 2020 and then it was canceled. 

Dude, chill. I'm not in the housing lottery in first place, so don't make bad assumptions. :-)

Posted by araubvogel mikeboozer
#38

mikeboozer wrote:
araubvogel wrote:
I'm surprised there is a $10 "return fee" for those who request refunds to the original form of purchase. Since the event is canceled, isn't Gen Con obligated to give a full refund, without any service charges?
We incur standard credit card processing fees for both the sale of a badge and the issuance of a badge. The fee is to cover those costs. We don’t make any money off of this fee.Mike
Understood, but I don't think you can pass those costs back to the customer for a canceled event.  The purchaser can argue that services were paid for and not provided.  If a credit card was used for the purchase, the credit card provider would undoubtedly require that you provide a full refund.

Posted by dballing araubvogel
#39

araubvogel wrote:
mikeboozer wrote:
araubvogel wrote:
I'm surprised there is a $10 "return fee" for those who request refunds to the original form of purchase. Since the event is canceled, isn't Gen Con obligated to give a full refund, without any service charges?
We incur standard credit card processing fees for both the sale of a badge and the issuance of a badge. The fee is to cover those costs. We don’t make any money off of this fee.Mike
Understood, but I don't think you can pass those costs back to the customer for a canceled event.  The purchaser can argue that services were paid for and not provided.  If a credit card was used for the purchase, the credit card provider would undoubtedly require that you provide a full refund.
Yeah, I think that Gen Con could find itself on the wrong end of charge-backs on the $10 "return fee" with the credit card companies.  Even Ticketmaster, the grade-a-jerks of fees, return them all on a cancelled event. :-)

Posted by itsugat mikeboozer
#40

mikeboozer wrote:
itsugat wrote:
Please consider extending the same time slots to the hotel lottery for 2021, or is there any way to keep our hotel reservations for 2021?

This is just not a fair policy for everyone. People with preferable time slots will be in favor of it and people without them will not be in favor.Mike
That's unfortunate, since we didn't get to enjoy or take advantage of the reservations we got. But I do understand this is a hard time for everyone. This decision couldn't have been easy and there's no way to please everyone. Thank you for the update. See you in 2021.

Posted by mikeboozer insane
#41

insane wrote:
if people are refunding their VIG pass would it be possible to pay for the VIG pass now?  I would happily pay now for a VIG pass in 2021 and I would assume that would help out with the finances

The VIG process is a lottery every year. VIG's will roll over to next year. You can apply to be one in starting in mid-November of next year by emailing [email protected]

Posted by menotyou9
#42

As someone who got a airport hotel, I'm happy with this policy. I'm willing to try my luck again next year.

Posted by forar dballing
#43

dballing wrote:
araubvogel wrote:
mikeboozer wrote:
araubvogel wrote:
I'm surprised there is a $10 "return fee" for those who request refunds to the original form of purchase. Since the event is canceled, isn't Gen Con obligated to give a full refund, without any service charges?
We incur standard credit card processing fees for both the sale of a badge and the issuance of a badge. The fee is to cover those costs. We don’t make any money off of this fee.Mike
Understood, but I don't think you can pass those costs back to the customer for a canceled event.  The purchaser can argue that services were paid for and not provided.  If a credit card was used for the purchase, the credit card provider would undoubtedly require that you provide a full refund.
Yeah, I think that Gen Con could find itself on the wrong end of charge-backs on the $10 "return fee" with the credit card companies.  Even Ticketmaster, the grade-a-jerks of fees, return them all on a cancelled event. :-)

Ticketmaster is also, according to Google, a company that pulls in around 11 billion dollars a year. I'm guessing that eating fees on chargebacks is somewhat less of an issue for them. I also doubt they often have to refund potentially 70,000 guests for a single event very often either.

Regardless, I hope this all gets worked out to the best of everyone's ability, and while I'm sad that Gencon is officially cancelled, I'm glad that the choice was made with plenty of advance notice.

Now to peruse the merch catalog and look forward to what will hopefully be a smash hit show in 2021, may the state (and world) be in a better place for it.

Posted by akb
#44

Are you guys going to be selling the GC2020 merch?  I would like to own part of the con that wasn't.

Posted by aceorton itsugat
#45

itsugat wrote:
mikeboozer wrote:
itsugat wrote:
Please consider extending the same time slots to the hotel lottery for 2021, or is there any way to keep our hotel reservations for 2021?

This is just not a fair policy for everyone. People with preferable time slots will be in favor of it and people without them will not be in favor.Mike
That's unfortunate, since we didn't get to enjoy or take advantage of the reservations we got. But I do understand this is a hard time for everyone. This decision couldn't have been easy and there's no way to please everyone. Thank you for the update. See you in 2021.

Logistically, I get that the population requesting lodging changes from year to year and you can't realistically just slide everything over. But perhaps Gen Con can consider some kind of other consolation gesture for those who lost downtown bookings in 2020 and aren't as lucky in 2021. A discounted parking pass, maybe some kind of small system credit toward event tickets ... just spit-balling here. You aren't going to be able to replace the convenience of a lost hotel room at a connected hotel, but a little something, even a very small something, might help soothe the burn.

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