Gen Con renews contract
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Posted by bugwar mhayward1978

mhayward1978 wrote:
bugwar wrote:
ryric wrote:
But no hotel or airline can increase their prices unless everybody does, because travel websites instantly compare all options. 

Interesting.
I always thought that 'Hotel 8' charged less than the 'Westin' did.
Guess I was confused.

These are not equivalent cases.  People buy economy air travel primarily based on price. 
 

Why change the discussion from the general class to a limited subset of it?
The original argument dealt with 'ALL' classes of service, not just one little portion of it.

Posted by dromgrin gib_rebeg

It seems like a lot of people are forgetting the history.  Or maybe someone posted about this in the middle of this thread, and I'm too lazy to read it all.

When Gen Con was in Milwaukee, they wouldn't expand the convention center or build more hotels around it.  And they still haven't.  I think they've opened one small hotel nearby this past year, and a few others many blocks away.  They won't even build new hotels near the Summer Fest grounds, which attracts hundreds of thousands every summer for multiple festivals.  The aldermen/city council are idiots, and the real estate investors don't quite get it (they're busy building highrise apartments).

In Indy, they've made huge expansions in the past 5+ years (I want to say it at least doubled in square-footage).  The ICC has grown to one of the largest in the country, and they have the Lucas Oil stadium if they need more space.  There are countless downtown hotels, many of which are connected to the ICC, and more have been built throughout the past few years.  Their downtown business owners embrace the conventions, and make the visitors feel welcome, like they're a part of the community for those few days.  The crime downtown is unnoticeable during the Con, as far as I can tell.  There are plenty of great places to eat and hang out.  There are tons of other attractions nearby, if you need a break from the Con--Museums, zoo, mall, movie theater, ball park, etc.  The city is centrally located on the continent.

The only thing we can complain about is that the convention has consistently grown in attendance for many years.  And in spite of all the expansion, the Con has grown faster.  However, the great aspects of Indy far outweigh the negatives caused by growth.

Indy understands that convention business is good, and they've invested in this heavily.  They will probably continue to do so, so long as the conventions stick around.  You're not going to find a better city for this convention.  It's just not realistic.  Go anywhere else, and Gen Con risks running into the same problems again, but in a town that might not be so forward-thinking or welcoming.

Posted by andrewj.rager genconkeeper

genconkeeper wrote:
Friends Indy has the package and will continue to have the package, convention center, rooms, and place to eat, near the geographic population center of the country. The Cities main industry is not cars, or steel, or making hamburgers but putting on Conventions. Unlike other town or places we don't look at Gen Con as bunch of freaks in costumes but people who have come to our City to have a fun time. The Cops invoke senority on who is going to work security for Gen Con, they love the show. We quickly intergrated Food Truck culture into our Convention Center, where other Convention Centers are writing laws to keep them away. Most other cities you are not going to find a Grocery Store within a few blocks of a Convention Center. It's the package and me and alot of other local attendees will continue to keep Gen Con in the minds of our local officials.
Randu
Last year was our first Gen Con. We live in the Detroit area & its a little over 4 hours to drive to Indy. We stayed in the North Campus area about 25 minutes out. We loved downtown Indy & everything it brought. In fact, we plan to stay downtown this year as to maximize our Gen Con experience. Indy was so welcoming to us & its a very reasonable driving distance for us. I would hate to see it go anywhere else as we are now planning on going every year!

Posted by felwred

GenCon being in Indy has a nice feel in that the convention owns the town for a few days. Organizers could improve the experience by doing a better job coordinating space available nearby but that won't fix the problems. The city has to step in to provide a better shuttle service or the con will have to move or just say they are done growing.

Logistically, the city to replace Indy would be Vegas. It has more connections than Indy - flights from all major US cities are subsidized (think $250 or less round-trip air fare from most places) and Vegas has the most convention space of any city in the world. Run the Con the Vegas Convention center or and you could double floor-space for the con itself immediately at a lower square foot cost than Indianapolis could provide. Hotels, without housing blocks, start at around $150/night for walking distance from the venues and $99/night wouldn't be challenging to find for a housing block (I've paid that for Caesars before). Vegas has become more of a family town and a town for businessmen so the location doesn't present problems. I find people who say Vegas would be the wrong element haven't spent time there (especially for business). Vegas also has the most hotel space of any location possible in North America. They routinely have conventions 2-5X the size of Gencon without a sweat.

Chicago would be a close second with McCormick being the largest single convention center site in the US (several times the space taken by GenCon). Hotels would cost a little more but O'Hare is the second busiest airport in America so there would be plenty of flights.

I'd like to see it move to Chicago or Vegas - picture having more space between tables, more events possible and lowering your costs for everyone who flies in. Gencon with 100,000 people becomes a reasonable possibility without seeming crowded.

Fred

Posted by rutherfordr felwred

felwred wrote:
Vegas has become more of a family town and a town for businessmen so the location doesn't present problems.

... except for the pimps on the street at night who hand out business cards with pictures of nude prostitutes to passersby.

Moving to Las Vegas would kill GenCon. I wouldn't take my kids there.
 

Posted by andrewj.rager rutherfordr

rutherfordr wrote:
felwred wrote:
Vegas has become more of a family town and a town for businessmen so the location doesn't present problems.

... except for the pimps on the street at night who hand out business cards with pictures of nude prostitutes to passersby.Moving to Las Vegas would kill GenCon. I wouldn't take my kids there.
 

Yeah Sorry we had our honeymoon in Vegas, & its very over rated. The whole town just feels dirty. Does not have the same friendliness that Indy does. Where in Indy everyone is welcoming of Gen Con, in Vegas everyone just wants your cash. The family environment of Gen Con would die. Vegas isn't for kids.

Posted by gib_rebeg rutherfordr

rutherfordr wrote:
felwred wrote:
Vegas has become more of a family town and a town for businessmen so the location doesn't present problems.

... except for the pimps on the street at night who hand out business cards with pictures of nude prostitutes to passersby.Moving to Las Vegas would kill GenCon. I wouldn't take my kids there.
I'm sure Vegas is out for more reasons then just that.

I would put the Casinos and the Casino shows as a greater reason Gencon wouldn't move to Vegas.

Lets be honest, Gencon wants those who attend to spend as much of their guest money at the convention, then at other events or shows going on. But you move to Vegas, how many of us would swing by one of the many casinos to test our luck, spending a portion of our limited vacation money at the casinos instead of at the convention on some game?

Honestly, I know I would. And with all the casino shows going on around town, do I play one more game of Settlers of Catan, or do I cut out, head over to the Luxor and catch a show of The Blue Man group preforming live, or watch Criss Angel preform. Or catch a show elsewhere?

Honestly, too much going on, and I - and others would find the shows elsewhere more interesting then playing a game at the convention, and would spend our limited money at other entertainment and not at the convention.

This is why Gencon will avoid Vegas.

Posted by braewe

I would not go to Vegas. Elsewhere in the midwest, should someplace so perfect as Indy miraculously appear, sure.

Posted by jobeth66

We go to Vegas both for business and for fun, and no way in heck would I want GenCon there.  It's not family friendly, IMO.  And sure you can get an off-strip hotel for $99/night, and maybe on-strip for $150/night during the week - but on the weekend?  Not a chance.  During a convention?  No way.  We go to HP Discover and rooms are NOT cheap.  I'm betting the same holds true during CES.  Drop 80,000 people in town for 4 days and your $99/night rooms go 'poof'.

And many of the attendees at Indy drive, they don't fly, because Indy is driving distance from much of the US.  I wouldn't buy nearly as much at GenCon if I had to fly, because it costs to ship them back, I would wait for then to come to Amazon.  Driving?  I pack my SUV.  I'm hardly alone.

Posted by andrewj.rager jobeth66

jobeth66 wrote:
We go to Vegas both for business and for fun, and no way in heck would I want GenCon there.  It's not family friendly, IMO.  And sure you can get an off-strip hotel for $99/night, and maybe on-strip for $150/night during the week - but on the weekend?  Not a chance.  During a convention?  No way.  We go to HP Discover and rooms are NOT cheap.  I'm betting the same holds true during CES.  Drop 80,000 people in town for 4 days and your $99/night rooms go 'poof'.
And many of the attendees at Indy drive, they don't fly, because Indy is driving distance from much of the US.  I wouldn't buy nearly as much at GenCon if I had to fly, because it costs to ship them back, I would wait for then to come to Amazon.  Driving?  I pack my SUV.  I'm hardly alone.
Great point about how much you would buy & driving. We did the same thing last year. Packed our car with as much as we could. Didn't have to worry about shipping it all back home for an additional cost. Of course Indy is better for us in the Midwest, but I really do think its the best option.

Posted by dradama felwred

felwred wrote:
GenCon being in Indy has a nice feel in that the convention owns the town for a few days. Organizers could improve the experience by doing a better job coordinating space available nearby but that won't fix the problems. The city has to step in to provide a better shuttle service or the con will have to move or just say they are done growing.
Logistically, the city to replace Indy would be Vegas. It has more connections than Indy - flights from all major US cities are subsidized (think $250 or less round-trip air fare from most places) and Vegas has the most convention space of any city in the world. Run the Con the Vegas Convention center or and you could double floor-space for the con itself immediately at a lower square foot cost than Indianapolis could provide. Hotels, without housing blocks, start at around $150/night for walking distance from the venues and $99/night wouldn't be challenging to find for a housing block (I've paid that for Caesars before). Vegas has become more of a family town and a town for businessmen so the location doesn't present problems. I find people who say Vegas would be the wrong element haven't spent time there (especially for business). Vegas also has the most hotel space of any location possible in North America. They routinely have conventions 2-5X the size of Gencon without a sweat.
Chicago would be a close second with McCormick being the largest single convention center site in the US (several times the space taken by GenCon). Hotels would cost a little more but O'Hare is the second busiest airport in America so there would be plenty of flights.
I'd like to see it move to Chicago or Vegas - picture having more space between tables, more events possible and lowering your costs for everyone who flies in. Gencon with 100,000 people becomes a reasonable possibility without seeming crowded.
Fred
When is comes to Chicago and McCormick my question would be how many attached hotels are  there?  I believe that answer is none.

Posted by angelhelly dradama

dradama wrote:
felwred wrote:
GenCon being in Indy has a nice feel in that the convention owns the town for a few days. Organizers could improve the experience by doing a better job coordinating space available nearby but that won't fix the problems. The city has to step in to provide a better shuttle service or the con will have to move or just say they are done growing.
Logistically, the city to replace Indy would be Vegas. It has more connections than Indy - flights from all major US cities are subsidized (think $250 or less round-trip air fare from most places) and Vegas has the most convention space of any city in the world. Run the Con the Vegas Convention center or and you could double floor-space for the con itself immediately at a lower square foot cost than Indianapolis could provide. Hotels, without housing blocks, start at around $150/night for walking distance from the venues and $99/night wouldn't be challenging to find for a housing block (I've paid that for Caesars before). Vegas has become more of a family town and a town for businessmen so the location doesn't present problems. I find people who say Vegas would be the wrong element haven't spent time there (especially for business). Vegas also has the most hotel space of any location possible in North America. They routinely have conventions 2-5X the size of Gencon without a sweat.
Chicago would be a close second with McCormick being the largest single convention center site in the US (several times the space taken by GenCon). Hotels would cost a little more but O'Hare is the second busiest airport in America so there would be plenty of flights.
I'd like to see it move to Chicago or Vegas - picture having more space between tables, more events possible and lowering your costs for everyone who flies in. Gencon with 100,000 people becomes a reasonable possibility without seeming crowded.
Fred
When is comes to Chicago and McCormick my question would be how many attached hotels are  there?  I believe that answer is none.
Yes they are (Hyatt regency for example) but still. I am from the Chicago area and I wouldn't want Gencon at McCormick place... it's way too big which means everything is so far of everything. What you can find in 4-5 city blocks in Indy will take you a lot more walking and uber in Chicago. And I don't want to start thinking about room prices and such. 

Posted by garhkal rutherfordr

rutherfordr wrote:
felwred wrote:
Vegas has become more of a family town and a town for businessmen so the location doesn't present problems.

... except for the pimps on the street at night who hand out business cards with pictures of nude prostitutes to passersby.Moving to Las Vegas would kill GenCon. I wouldn't take my kids there.
 

I've known quite a few people who vaca'ed in vegas, who never had that happen... 

Posted by squirecam garhkal

garhkal wrote:
rutherfordr wrote:
felwred wrote:
Vegas has become more of a family town and a town for businessmen so the location doesn't present problems.

... except for the pimps on the street at night who hand out business cards with pictures of nude prostitutes to passersby.Moving to Las Vegas would kill GenCon. I wouldn't take my kids there.

I've known quite a few people who vaca'ed in vegas, who never had that happen... 
Yeah this is simple haterade.

Vegas is not remotely like it was in the 50's-90's. I get it that people like Indy. I live in Vegas and I'd rather it stay in Indy, assuming the hotel and public transport issues get fixed.

But slandering Vegas as not family friendly these days is simply wrong. Yes, people gamble. Take your moral outrage about it elsewhere. Vegas has the necesssary hotel space and public infrastructure. Much more important than your kid seeing a slot machine.

Posted by ematuskey

From previous years of discussions that I recall, Vegas is deemed unsuitable for the many non-con distractions (as much as the perceived lack of family-friendliness), and walking distance from the many hotels to the convention center.  Chicago/McCormick is the same way from what I recall--huge convention center, but no nearby hotels. 

It's interesting to read that the Gen Con owners were thinking of moving--I would dearly love to know what cities they're looking at, after all the discussions on these forums over the years about how pretty much every conceivable option is less good than Indy.  ;)

Posted by austicke ematuskey

ematuskey wrote:It's interesting to read that the Gen Con owners were thinking of moving--I would dearly love to know what cities they're looking at, after all the discussions on these forums over the years about how pretty much every conceivable option is less good than Indy.  ;)

Noting moving, but here's last year's survey about an additional Gen Con.

Posted by gib_rebeg

Whats interesting is every single city with the exception of Austin and Baltimore are all cites with larger convention centers then Indianapolis.

Posted by andrewj.rager austicke

austicke wrote:
ematuskey wrote:It's interesting to read that the Gen Con owners were thinking of moving--I would dearly love to know what cities they're looking at, after all the discussions on these forums over the years about how pretty much every conceivable option is less good than Indy.  ;)

Noting moving, but here's last year's survey about an additional Gen Con.
Where is this survey to take? I don't ever remember getting an email about it. I would love to be able to help contribute to Gen Con in feedback.

Posted by austicke andrewj.rager

andrewj.rager wrote:Where is this survey to take? I don't ever remember getting an email about it. I would love to be able to help contribute to Gen Con in feedback.

The survey is from a year ago. I'm going to assume it's completed.

Posted by felwred

The issue is GenCon cannot expand any further in Indianapolis. That means pricing has to be increased pretty substantially to fix some of the current problems. Hotel costs are already well higher than Vegas, Orlando, Atlanta, or Chicago (comparing room blocks for similar events).

If you had a pimp walk up to you in Vegas you were far off the strip into nude dancer territory. I go to Vegas at least twice per year for work. I've never had anything like that happen. The worst I've had happen is wandering into areas with lots of people smoking (something that is going away there). There is a reason more business conventions are there than anywhere else in the world. It is reliable, convenient, and cost effective. I've had room blocks for conferences in Vegas at Caesar's palace for nice rooms between $99 and $150/night. You can stay at most on-strip resorts for under $150/night. The reason is the available number of rooms is more than ten times what you have in Indy. Flights are subsidized so the costs would be lower there as well for virtually all flights.

Chicago has a much bigger convention center but does have a hotel problem. McCormick does have attached hotels (I've stayed in them before) but it caps out at something like 30K-40K people of attached hotels. Past that, you are looking at having to travel in a mile or so meaning it would be similar to Indy on hotels but you would have ample public transportation.

Orlando has a bigger convention center as well and substantially more hotel space. It's problem is timing. With GenCon happening during summer vacation, they would be competing for hotel space with summer family vacations at DisneyWorld.

Atlanta could be a good sneaky option. They have a bigger center and more hotel space (DragonCon is handled really well for a convention slightly bigger than GenCon).

Going full east coast means more west coast people wouldn't come, though. The same is true of going too far west to LA, San Diego, etc..

Denver doesn't have enough hotel space (I live here) and the convention center is only slightly larger than Indy.

Detroit has smaller convention space and is in terrible shape (the convention center). It would be inexpensive, though. Public transit isn't reliable so all hotels would have to be near the center (there aren't enough there for that).

New Orleans would be harder to get to than most places and would be more expensive. They do have the space and hotels, though. (And having great Cajun food would be a big plus!)
Austin would be fun but their convention space is smaller and less hotels than Indy.

That pretty much leaves Chicago and Atlanta. I'd support either of those or closing admission to GenCon at 40,000 or so and increasing all the prices to allow for a better overall experience (ample hotels, enough space for games without it being deafening, etc.)

I'd say Vegas #1, Chicago #2, then Atlanta #3.

Fred

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