Gen Con renews contract
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Posted by bugwar squirecam
#76

squirecam wrote:
=inheritWhich is why a move to a city with light rail/subway/shuttles might be necessary. Every other major convention city has these features. Indy does not.

I keep reading you writing "...move to a city with light rail/subway/shuttles...", yet you have not named a single metropolis that meets your criteria as a suitable convention center.  
Please, be so kind as to actually list a town that is such a paragon of civic virtue in your mind.


 

Posted by del_grande aaronmlopez
#77

aaronmlopez wrote:
squirecam wrote:
aaronmlopez wrote:
Squirecam, I am not really sure that Gen Con has the "attendee problems" at a large scale at all. Again, you cannot make everybody happy and the complaints are only coming from a relatively small number of the 60k attendees. If a larger percentage of Gen Con goers were to start voicing displeasure and lodging complaints then I would agree that it should consider relocating. However, the number of complaints probably amount to less than 1 percent, which unfortunately is not enough to make an impact. Last years thread about this only saw about 20 to 50 different users posting which is considerably less than 1% of attendees.

I guarantee you that more than 1% had problems with the shuttle system during those years. Otherwise Gen con would not have dropped it.Maybe more don't post because they already think what I fear, that Gen con ignored the problem last year, got away with it, and thus will keep doing so.
How can you "guarantee" that? You do bring up one point, which is a problem with a lot of stuff, not just Gen Con. People need to speak up if there is a problem, otherwise those in power will not know if it should be addressed. Shame on those who have problems and don't let anyone that has the ability to make a change know.Secondly, how do you know Gen Con ignored the shuttle? I am not in on their meetings and I am going to guess that you are also not part of these meetings. Perhaps the CITY did something that made it unfeasible to run shuttles? Perhaps the shuttle companies themselves changed something? Perhaps Uber and Lyft made a significant dent in operations of the shuttle that it was just not affordable. Perhaps the shuttle drivers were part of a union where the union decided not to run. What I am saying is, it may not be entirely Gen Con that made the decision not to run the shuttles.

Here's the perspective of someone with an outlier hotel and no car in 2015: the main problem with the shuttles was, you had to reserve them in advance, so you had to know your gaming schedule in advance - and if you were in a tournament with a final at night, you either had to assume you would be in the final when you scheduled the shuttle, or risk having to take a taxi back to your hotel.  The other problems were, the shuttles from the hotels ran only in the morning, the ones back to the hotels ran only at night, they ran two hours apart, they stopped running at 1 AM, and a significant number of the airport hotels were nowhere near a shuttle stop.  However, I don't think these were GenCon's fault as much as they were the shuttle company's.  I also seem to recall that this system was set up in response to the "no reservations needed" system in 2014, where some people complained that the shuttles from the hotels were always full by the time they reached their hotels, and the ones going back had incredibly long lines, especially for the last shuttle of the night.

You know, Indianapolis does have a halfway-decent bus system, if you do your homework and plan on a "standby" hotel near one just in case you don't win the downtown hotel lottery.

Posted by grayfoxchild
#78

As someone who has never stayed at a hotel downtown, I don't see that big of an issue with there not being enough downtown hotels.  Granted, we've always wanted to stay closer to the convention center but it's just always been financially out of our reach. The biggest annoyance for this coming year so far has to be the glitch that the Embasy had that allowed for booking rooms earlier.  I managed to get a room for a pretty decent rate but it got canceled because of that "glitch".  

Housing aside, my biggest complaint really has to do with affordable parking.  I'm really hoping that they offer the flat rate parking option again like they did this year.

Posted by nialith lore seeker
#79

father bloodlust wrote:Problem with that is a lack of parking space. That's why a good shuttle service is so critical to so many. Unfortunately, the shuttle service wasn't good even when it was there by most accounts, and now it's not there at all.

According to Downtown Indy, there are 73,000 parking spaces. Of course, many of those aren't close to the convention center. However, there are a lot of parking areas that people might not be aware of. I'd recommend checking out this link to see where all you can park: http://www.downtownindy.org/get-around-downtown/park/

ParkWhiz and Gate Ten also offer reserved parking which helps take away the burden of trying to find a place each day. 

Posted by lore seeker nialith
#80

nialith wrote:
father bloodlust wrote:Problem with that is a lack of parking space. That's why a good shuttle service is so critical to so many. Unfortunately, the shuttle service wasn't good even when it was there by most accounts, and now it's not there at all.

According to Downtown Indy, there are 73,000 parking spaces. Of course, many of those aren't close to the convention center. However, there are a lot of parking areas that people might not be aware of. I'd recommend checking out this link to see where all you can park: http://www.downtownindy.org/get-around-downtown/park/ParkWhiz and Gate Ten also offer reserved parking which helps take away the burden of trying to find a place each day. 

But we're not the only ones using them. The people who actually live and work in Indy use most of them as far as I can tell (I've heard you have to wake up pretty early to get downtown with a decent chance of finding a parking spot).

Posted by garhkal
#81

That is true.  And i am not sure i would call 20 a day (as some of those lots are priced at) reasonable..

Posted by grayfoxchild lore seeker
#82

father bloodlust wrote:
nialith wrote:
father bloodlust wrote:Problem with that is a lack of parking space. That's why a good shuttle service is so critical to so many. Unfortunately, the shuttle service wasn't good even when it was there by most accounts, and now it's not there at all.

According to Downtown Indy, there are 73,000 parking spaces. Of course, many of those aren't close to the convention center. However, there are a lot of parking areas that people might not be aware of. I'd recommend checking out this link to see where all you can park: http://www.downtownindy.org/get-around-downtown/park/ParkWhiz and Gate Ten also offer reserved parking which helps take away the burden of trying to find a place each day. 

But we're not the only ones using them. The people who actually live and work in Indy use most of them as far as I can tell (I've heard you have to wake up pretty early to get downtown with a decent chance of finding a parking spot).

Yeah, it's not uncommon for us to roll into downtown Indy around 8am and not roll out until sometime after midnight.  We've gradually been adapting our parking space hunting procedure over the years and it's really only been within the past couple that it's become a true nightmare because the lot we were using has been inflating their prices at an insane rate.  We started parking in the lot down by the Slippery Noodle and it was $5 in 2011 by 2014 it had almost tripled. We had to skip last year due to some job tomfoolery. We've only started looking into flat rate parking recently because of the price gouging headache that parking has become.

Posted by al_kesselring
#83

Perhaps I missed it..............and if I did, I apologize..........but, what are the dates in 2021 for Gencon?

Posted by austicke al_kesselring
#84

al_kesselring wrote:what are the dates in 2021 for Gencon?

Good question. I haven't seen it revealed yet.
 

Posted by gib_rebeg
#85

Can't believe we are still arguing over "Should and Where Gencon should move". To put it simply there is no good location that satisfies everyone, or enough people. As it stands, Gencon will likely remain in Indy for many years to come. Indy may not be the most ideal for all needs, but it meets enough. To that, no convention location ever would.

Looking back at an old survey they did earlier in the year, the cities they were looking at now makes sense as they said they were considering other options.
http://www.gencon.com/forums/15-general-info-2016/topics/640-new-survey

Look at that list, and read what people were saying.

These cites have too much crime.
These cites are too far away.
These cites are too hot in the summer.

To put it mildly, there are no perfect options. And to be honest, I would be on the list of those possible out if Gencon moved further away. While others would rejoice at the thought of Gencon being nearer to them. Many like my self would be forced to look at other options.

See the problem.

Far as rooms go, there are many hotels that do not participate in the housing block deal. Maybe this is something they can look into. Even a small road side motel is a place to stay, and I have done that years ago in Milwaukee. Also, why not look into seeing if the local universities or colleges have empty dorms they would be interested in renting out like we use to have in Milwaukee, to add more places to stay.

Far as the convention center goes, we are expanding into Lucas. Maybe some of the other near by venues to spread out into? There are places to look into near by and take presure off the CC.

Posted by nascragman
#86

it's a cost/benefit analysis ultimately.  How much cost and effort is involved in getting a hotel room and/or traveling to that hotel room.  How much enjoyment does GenCon provide for me, personally?  When the cost gets significantly above the benefit, I'll stop coming.

Posted by nascragman
#87

Well, honestly, I'm not dropping out until at least 2019.  That would be Nascrag's 40th anniversary.

Posted by garhkal nascragman
#88

nascragman wrote:
it's a cost/benefit analysis ultimately.  How much cost and effort is involved in getting a hotel room and/or traveling to that hotel room.  How much enjoyment does GenCon provide for me, personally?  When the cost gets significantly above the benefit, I'll stop coming.

Which is why for me, the nickle and diming we are getting from the airlines, gas prices, hotel prices etc, is making gencon seem less and less attractive year after year.

Posted by bugwar garhkal
#89

garhkal wrote:
 
Which is why for me, the nickle and diming we are getting from the airlines, gas prices, hotel prices etc, is making gencon seem less and less attractive year after year.
So general inflation is to blame????

 

Posted by garhkal
#90

Adding a 'charge to bring carry ons now is NOT 'general inflation.
Hiking up hotel rates, just cause they can, is not "general inflation.
Hiking up hotel taxes, cause the state wants more dosh is not 'general inflation...

Posted by gib_rebeg nascragman
#91

nascragman wrote:
it's a cost/benefit analysis ultimately.  How much cost and effort is involved in getting a hotel room and/or traveling to that hotel room.  How much enjoyment does GenCon provide for me, personally?  When the cost gets significantly above the benefit, I'll stop coming.
And in the end, that is part of what I've said before. And this is also what Gencon looks at too. That magic number when attendance growth slows or halts due to the cost of attending. Gencon will continue to raise ticket prices as long as they continue to see strong attendance growth.

Posted by nialith
#92

Actually, I would say that GenCon raising prices is an attempt to slow attendance. It seems to have worked last year. Which may or may not have been what you meant. :-)

Posted by ryric garhkal
#93

garhkal wrote:
Adding a 'charge to bring carry ons now is NOT 'general inflation.
Hiking up hotel rates, just cause they can, is not "general inflation.
Hiking up hotel taxes, cause the state wants more dosh is not 'general inflation...
Actually, those basically are due to general inflation, combined with travel websites. See, due to inflation, the costs of the services hotels and airlines provide have gone up - property is more expensive, supplies cost more, and so forth. But no hotel or airline can increase their prices unless everybody does, because travel websites instantly compare all options. If one provider increases their price first, they lose out on nearly all their business because no one will choose them now. So no one can actually increase their cost of service commensurate with inflation. So the base price of a room or flight remains stagnant, and the providers have to try and make up the difference by tacking on fees. It's a terrible situation but that's the reality of it. If the hotels/airlines could collude to raise prices together we wouldn't be in this pickle, but that's illegal (for good, other reasons).

Basic economics dictates that the hotels should charge whatever the highest price is that sells all their rooms. If they were selling out at $2000 a night they would charge that much.

Posted by bugwar ryric
#94

ryric wrote:
But no hotel or airline can increase their prices unless everybody does, because travel websites instantly compare all options. 

Interesting.
I always thought that 'Hotel 8' charged less than the 'Westin' did.
Guess I was confused.

Posted by mhayward1978 bugwar
#95

bugwar wrote:
ryric wrote:
But no hotel or airline can increase their prices unless everybody does, because travel websites instantly compare all options. 

Interesting.
I always thought that 'Hotel 8' charged less than the 'Westin' did.
Guess I was confused.

These are not equivalent cases.  

People buy economy air travel primarily based on price.  Most people will fly on airline A over airline B if airline A is $1 cheaper.

The same is not true of hotels, because hotels differentiate on quality of experience, and hotel customers have shown a willingness to pay for more amenities.

Airline customers have not shown a willingness to pay for more amenities - at least insofar as up front pricing goes, so airlines have moved to a model where all amenities (headphones, food on board, checked bags, decent amounts of leg room, etc., etc.) are charged after the fact.

You'll note that when you shop for a hotel room, the number of stars and amenities of the hotel (indoor pool, free WiFi, breakfast, etc., etc.) are front and center in the listings.  When you shop for flights such differentiation is nowhere to be found outside the large categories of economy/business/first class.  This is because airlines have figured out their customers (by and large) only care about the price on the ticket.
 

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