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Posted by papabees squirecam

squirecam wrote:
wavester wrote:
papabees wrote:
forar wrote:
 Even if it proves to be a meager 1% reduction in risk, surely taking that step a second year in a row during a (hopefully) once in a lifetime pandemic isn't so egregious an ask? As a community, for each other.
It doesn't have to be perfect to be helpful, especially when dealing with tens of thousands of people lingering and roaming through enclosed spaces (HVAC upgrades notwithstanding) for 4+ days straight. Nothing is perfect, and we're dealing with a massive and in many ways uncontrolled space. Just being cool with one another and rising to the occasion really shouldn't be that big of an ask.

So this is where I'd disagree a bit. If we are talking about dropping over $1k on a vacation (in some cases much more), to offer the proposition of wearing an item that is stuffy, makes it very hard to hear in some cases, and is uncomfortable for a statistically minute decrease in the potential to catch COVID to me is a no way. Even after catching it, the odds of it now being serious are infinitesimal. After reading through the thread, I am trying to be open minded to the pressures Gencon is likely feeling from their vendors. I think at this point I'd be satisfied with masks in the vendor hall but mask optional in gaming areas unless a particular presenter had the whole room and felt otherwise. That would likely make the large majority of vendors and gamers happy. 

It wouldn't but many like to think that.Doing that just passes the angry peeps down the food chain to individual area, hall managers, and DM's. It lets a turd-hoarder yell "The table next to me isn't wearing masks so you asking me to is <fill in rant here>". It makes a DM, who might already feel uncomfortable running games in a public space for strangers, even more stressed when they are suddenly the 'bad guy' asking somebody to help keep them and other safe. Instead of arguments happening here, or at customer service, they get outsourced to dozens if not hundreds of smaller spaces all over the convention. No thanks
I highly doubt they'll do it but I'll state right here and now - if they did push it out to let groups make their own calls
D&D @ Gen Con - as in run by Baldman Games as premiere organizer for Wizards of the Coast - with hundreds of events and thousands of tickets - would 100% require masks in all of our play spaces.  
That doesn't work for you - return those tickets baby!!!!  I have another thousand peeps waiting to take them off your hands.
yeah I can’t imagine any of your DM’s wanting that responsibility and the hassles it comes with. 
well, I wasn't really thinking individual tables. More like, Paizo has this entire ballroom and they want to mask but the main ICC hall is all optional.

Posted by donaldbain papabees

papabees wrote:After reading through the thread, I am trying to be open minded to the pressures Gencon is likely feeling from their vendors. I think at this point I'd be satisfied with masks in the vendor hall but mask optional in gaming areas unless a particular presenter had the whole room and felt otherwise. That would likely make the large majority of vendors and gamers happy. 
Keeping in mind that the vendors also have people working in the gaming areas to run demos and want to keep their people safe everywhere, the majority may not be as major as you'd think.

Posted by mikeboozer cinnibar

cinnibar wrote:
Much better to have the overall policy.  Makes the decision/reaction flowchart for the staff easy to manage.  A GM calls over one of the staff to handle the problem, who is empowered to suggest, remind and if needed enforce the rules per a policy that is not re-debated at every point.

There will be an overall policy. 

Individuals or groups will not be making this call.

Mike

Posted by squirecam mikeboozer

mikeboozer wrote:
cinnibar wrote:
Much better to have the overall policy.  Makes the decision/reaction flowchart for the staff easy to manage.  A GM calls over one of the staff to handle the problem, who is empowered to suggest, remind and if needed enforce the rules per a policy that is not re-debated at every point.
There will be an overall policy. 
Individuals or groups will not be making this call.
Mike
Yeah that sounds best.

Thank you for looking out for the poor GM’s that have enough to worry about already. 

Posted by mikeboozer

Hello All,

Thanks for all of your feedback.

We will be announcing our final health and safety plan in about a week.

Mike

 

Posted by general lopez mikeboozer

mikeboozer wrote:
Hello All,
Thanks for all of your feedback.
We will be announcing our final health and safety plan in about a week.
Mike
 

Thank you!

Posted by helenbb

[This post has been removed]

Posted by mikeboozer helenbb

helenbb wrote:
Thank you for making that announcement before the refund deadline, Mike.

Of course!

Mike

Posted by mps mikeboozer

mikeboozer wrote:
Hello All,
Thanks for all of your feedback.
We will be announcing our final health and safety plan in about a week.
Mike
 

Thanks for the update Mike, and thanks for managing this touchy subject so well.
 

Posted by xanathon

I will be there either way.  I don't allow myself to be ruled by fear or a lack of education on the subject of COVID.  If masks are optional I will be comfortable not wearing a mask.  If masks are required I will wear a mask.

To those that say they will only attend if masks are required nowhere that I have read states that you cannot wear a mask.  If you feel better wearing one then wear it.  If you don't feel comfortable attending then don't.  

Just stop this pointless argument over this issue.  The horse is long dead and has been turned to glue.

Posted by nesbit37 xanathon

xanathon wrote:
To those that say they will only attend if masks are required nowhere that I have read states that you cannot wear a mask.  If you feel better wearing one then wear it.  If you don't feel comfortable attending then don't.  
The problem with this is that masks exist largely to protect other people from the wearer.  You do get some protection yourself by wearing a mask but its more to prevent other people from being affected by whatever the mask wearer has.  Just telling people to wear a mask if they want to doesn't change this.

Posted by bigfathairyguy nesbit37

nesbit37 wrote:
xanathon wrote:
To those that say they will only attend if masks are required nowhere that I have read states that you cannot wear a mask.  If you feel better wearing one then wear it.  If you don't feel comfortable attending then don't.  
The problem with this is that masks exist largely to protect other people from the wearer.  You do get some protection yourself by wearing a mask but its more to prevent other people from being affected by whatever the mask wearer has.  Just telling people to wear a mask if they want to doesn't change this.
Unless you wear an N95 mask and that provides protection for the user. KN95 also offer some protection for the user. Surgical masks are your next best option but you are right in that they more protect others more than yourself. Cloth masks provide little protection though for the user or other people.

We will see what if any mask requirements Gencon has in the coming days. Only thing that would stop me from going at this point is if they do something more restrictive than what they said in their initial message that we have to be vaccinated which meant an initial cycle with an approved vaccine and having to wear a mask.

Posted by xanathon nesbit37

nesbit37 wrote:
xanathon wrote:
To those that say they will only attend if masks are required nowhere that I have read states that you cannot wear a mask.  If you feel better wearing one then wear it.  If you don't feel comfortable attending then don't.  
The problem with this is that masks exist largely to protect other people from the wearer.  You do get some protection yourself by wearing a mask but its more to prevent other people from being affected by whatever the mask wearer has.  Just telling people to wear a mask if they want to doesn't change this.
Here's the thing.  Most people don't properly educate themselves on any issue.  When it comes to COVID if people believe that a paper or cloth mask will protect them then who am I to tell them they are wrong.  I'm not a doctor.  For myself I have never believed that a paper or cloth mask would protect me from something microscopic from getting into my nose or mouth when I am breathing in.  Simply put I don't believe they are meant to do that.

N95 masks are designed to do that which is why I wore them and only those masks during the worst of COVID.  I never caught it and I credit that to wearing a N95 mask.

Now that COVID is on the decline people can't or won't seem to believe that even being vaccinated is enough.  For those people their fear over rides their decision making ability which is why I believe they keep harping on mandating masks.

If they cannot see that there are a ton of events going on where there are no mask mandates, such as concerts, baseball games, hockey games, baksetball games, the Indy 500, etc, and there are no massive COVID outbreaks from these events, nothing will get them to see that it is their fear that prevents them from seeing this.

I imagine that we all still see a lot of people driving alone wearing a mask.  

So with all of that said this is why I say if people feel better by wearing a mask then they should wear a mask while attending Gen Con if Gen Con LLC changes their stance on mandating masks based on the current status of the virus.

This entire discussion as well as the discussion on the Fans of Gen Con group show that COVID cannot be discussed with any level of common sense or rational thought.

Posted by donaldbain

Here we go again. 

There is an increase in Covid-19 infections, hospitalizations, and deaths.  There are many events that have lead to large outbreaks of infections.  The Star Wars con in Anaheim is one.  Large, indoor conventions that run over multiple days are vastly different from hours long events, many outdoors, where the crowds are largely locals. 

The CDC confirms all masks help, some more than others.  Your lack of knowledge doesn't change this.

Being vaccinated is wonderful and important, masks still help.

All your "living in fear" comments remove you from the rational thought pool.

I'm done. 

 

Posted by xanathon donaldbain

donaldbain wrote:
Here we go again. 
There is an increase in Covid-19 infections, hospitalizations, and deaths.  There are many events that have lead to large outbreaks of infections.  The Star Wars con in Anaheim is one.  Large, indoor conventions that run over multiple days are vastly different from hours long events, many outdoors, where the crowds are largely locals. 
The CDC confirms all masks help, some more than others.  Your lack of knowledge doesn't change this.
Being vaccinated is wonderful and important, masks still help.
All your "living in fear" comments remove you from the rational thought pool.
I'm done. 
 
If you believe that all masks help again I’m not going to tell you that you are wrong. 

Yes I am aware of what the CDC states. The only thing I can say is that I know many people who wore cloth or paper masks who still contracted COVID. 

As far as COVID levels on the rise I’m sure there are some areas that the numbers are going up, but they are not going up across the Country. 

Posted by joho

Awaiting the final word on the health guidelines and the end of the science debate with much anticipation.

I’m interested to see the processes put in place to enforce  masking, vaccine verification, and other safety measures.

assuming mask & vaxx  requirments will there be free masks on hand for those with non-viable mask solutions? Limited entrances to the ICC with posted security running checks for masks, badges, and vaxx proof? Stations to provide proof of vaccination and obtain a wearable visual signifier for vaxx status that can be easily checked and not easily passed to someone else? Staff/volunteers reminding people to keep their masks up inside the hall & events spaces? Posted reminders of symptoms and a request to not enter GenCon when exhibiting symptoms? 

A set of requirements will require a slew of procedures and logistics. I’m fascinated to see what they come up with.

with the state of origins’ safety measures, the issues at Star Wars Celebration, and the general state of things, I’m hopeful that the mask and vaxx requirements will be in place. We’ll see!

Posted by kevinrg

They ran a successful show last year with masks. Many of the things on your wish list/desired list were not present: limited entry, roving bands of security checking masks, constant reminders.  There was signage obviously and don't know about masks handed out.  

Last year, people followed the rules just fine so I have no idea why they would find it necessary to be even more intrusive, controlling and worried over compliance with masks a year later.

Thankfully the answer is coming in the next few days and everyone can move on and decide officially if they want to deal with whatever hand Gencon deals before the penalties for cancelling start.

Posted by joho kevinrg

kevinrg wrote:
They ran a successful show last year with masks. Many of the things on your wish list/desired list were not present: limited entry, roving bands of security checking masks, constant reminders.  There was signage obviously and don't know about masks handed out.  
Last year, people followed the rules just fine so I have no idea why they would find it necessary to be even more intrusive, controlling and worried over compliance with masks a year later.
Thankfully the answer is coming in the next few days and everyone can move on and decide officially if they want to deal with whatever hand Gencon deals before the penalties for cancelling start.
oh, not a wishlist, just a curiosity. They did give out  some masks (from what a person working the info desk was saying- they handed them out to those in need).

With a potential vaxx requirement there are new challenges. They will need systems in place to check badges, masks, and vaxx status for everyone entering the indoor space without jamming thing up too much. 

Gencon sprawls beyond the ICC, itself a sprawling complex with multiple points of entry. I don’t know that they can ever do like Comic-cons (NY & San Diego) or the PAXs, which have a security entrance with bag checks and metal detectors.

There is only so much they can do before the convention security becomes a detriment to the experience, which is why we as voluntary attendees should be helpful and comply with the rules of the convention. 

Posted by kevinrg joho

joho wrote:There is only so much they can do before the convention security becomes a detriment to the experience

Agree on that.    Big reason I don't go to places like SDCC/NY.  Only so much I will deal with for lines/hassle before it just detracts from the experience.  

If I had to guess on vax, it will just be something verified when someone does an event, goes to the hall or maybe random security viewing.   As you mentioned, with the multiple points of entry, I don't see it extending beyond you need mask, badge, vax whatever to participate in an event verified at the event rather than verified entering the ICC.
 

Posted by quarex

I wore an N95 at Gen-Con last year and despite being standing or sitting entirely too close to people for hours on end, I was fine.  Then, after getting my booster no less, I was only wearing a cloth mask when working in a well-ventilated office environment for a couple of weeks in March, never really closer than about 10 feet from anyone else, only being around like 15-20 people total, and did get it.  So yeah, I like good masks.

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