Official Gen Con specific only Coronavirus thread
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Posted by lore seeker del_grande

del_grande wrote:
Another shoe dropped: WBC, which was scheduled for the same time as GenCon, has been cancelled
Note, however, that this takes place in western Pennsylvania; the state's proximity to New York may have played a part in this.

Plus, PA is part of the Eastern States Pact that includes New York - another reason they may have taken a cue from NY.

Posted by lore seeker

Gen Con got a short mention in an Indianapolis Business Journal article about summer conventions and their prospects this year. One of the people quoted had an interesting idea.

Here's the part that talks about Gen Con:

"Gen Con, the city’s largest regular summer convention, draws about 70,000 people downtown each year. Its organizers have not said whether they will modify plans. Representatives for the organization did not respond to repeated requests for comment."

Kimberly Hoffman, president of the Indiana chapter of Meeting Professionals International, said Gen Con could 'get creative' with its activities, by spreading them throughout downtown.

"'I think there’s a really great opportunity for restaurants to become gaming space, and some of the city’s non-traditional venues to absorb a little bit of that traffic' to accommodate social distancing, Hoffman said."

Posted by gskhaladon lore seeker

father bloodlust wrote:
Gen Con got a short mention in an Indianapolis Business Journal article about summer conventions and their prospects this year. One of the people quoted had an interesting idea.
Here's the part that talks about Gen Con:
"Gen Con, the city’s largest regular summer convention, draws about 70,000 people downtown each year. Its organizers have not said whether they will modify plans. Representatives for the organization did not respond to repeated requests for comment."
Kimberly Hoffman, president of the Indiana chapter of Meeting Professionals International, said Gen Con could 'get creative' with its activities, by spreading them throughout downtown.
"'I think there’s a really great opportunity for restaurants to become gaming space, and some of the city’s non-traditional venues to absorb a little bit of that traffic' to accommodate social distancing, Hoffman said."

Interesting concept.  You also are then even more dependent on a transportation infrastructure than likely exists.  There were times my partner and I were waiting 20-30 mins for an Uber just to get back and forth to our AirBNB 10 mins away once or twice a day.  Now everyone will need a car and/or an Uber constantly to get around.  Or a LOT more walking more than the 10000 steps we averaged daily last year as it was.

Also if you start mixing in restaurants and such, you introduce alcohol to the mix and alcohol produces anything but social distancing.

Posted by lore seeker gskhaladon

gskhaladon wrote:
father bloodlust wrote:
Gen Con got a short mention in an Indianapolis Business Journal article about summer conventions and their prospects this year. One of the people quoted had an interesting idea.
Here's the part that talks about Gen Con:
"Gen Con, the city’s largest regular summer convention, draws about 70,000 people downtown each year. Its organizers have not said whether they will modify plans. Representatives for the organization did not respond to repeated requests for comment."
Kimberly Hoffman, president of the Indiana chapter of Meeting Professionals International, said Gen Con could 'get creative' with its activities, by spreading them throughout downtown.
"'I think there’s a really great opportunity for restaurants to become gaming space, and some of the city’s non-traditional venues to absorb a little bit of that traffic' to accommodate social distancing, Hoffman said."

Interesting concept.  You also are then even more dependent on a transportation infrastructure than likely exists.  There were times my partner and I were waiting 20-30 mins for an Uber just to get back and forth to our AirBNB 10 mins away once or twice a day.  Now everyone will need a car and/or an Uber constantly to get around.  Or a LOT more walking more than the 10000 steps we averaged daily last year as it was.Also if you start mixing in restaurants and such, you introduce alcohol to the mix and alcohol produces anything but social distancing.

I don't know, Downtown Indy seems pretty walkable to me, so it could work (as long as they limit the hypothetical spread of events to a certain radius from the ICC).

The big obstacle I can see is the amount of buy-in required from the restaurants. Indy loves Gen Con, sure, but will the restaurant owners be okay with tabletop games taking up tables that could be used for customers, especially if those gamers aren't ordering anything more than a drink?

Posted by grognard262

I don't think Gen Con will draw anywhere near 70,000 people this year for the simple reason that many people will be afraid of getting sick.  Attendance could easily be down 50%.  That would make social distancing easier, but it would also totally change the economics of the event.

Posted by wildcat78 lore seeker

father bloodlust wrote:
gskhaladon wrote:
father bloodlust wrote:
Gen Con got a short mention in an Indianapolis Business Journal article about summer conventions and their prospects this year. One of the people quoted had an interesting idea.
Here's the part that talks about Gen Con:
"Gen Con, the city’s largest regular summer convention, draws about 70,000 people downtown each year. Its organizers have not said whether they will modify plans. Representatives for the organization did not respond to repeated requests for comment."
Kimberly Hoffman, president of the Indiana chapter of Meeting Professionals International, said Gen Con could 'get creative' with its activities, by spreading them throughout downtown.
"'I think there’s a really great opportunity for restaurants to become gaming space, and some of the city’s non-traditional venues to absorb a little bit of that traffic' to accommodate social distancing, Hoffman said."

Interesting concept.  You also are then even more dependent on a transportation infrastructure than likely exists.  There were times my partner and I were waiting 20-30 mins for an Uber just to get back and forth to our AirBNB 10 mins away once or twice a day.  Now everyone will need a car and/or an Uber constantly to get around.  Or a LOT more walking more than the 10000 steps we averaged daily last year as it was.Also if you start mixing in restaurants and such, you introduce alcohol to the mix and alcohol produces anything but social distancing.

I don't know, Downtown Indy seems pretty walkable to me, so it could work (as long as they limit the hypothetical spread of events to a certain radius from the ICC).The big obstacle I can see is the amount of buy-in required from the restaurants. Indy loves Gen Con, sure, but will the restaurant owners be okay with tabletop games taking up tables that could be used for customers, especially if those gamers aren't ordering anything more than a drink?

Great point

8 hours of Arkham horror and the table orders two sodas, two iced teas, and 58 waters.

Do you tip 700% to be nice to the establishment and waitstaff?

what about miniature gamers?  Four tables to fight a 3000 point 40 k fight?

I’d hate to be the person that accidentally scoops up someone’s venerable dreadnought and puts it through the dishwasher....   

Posted by forar

Spreading it out broadly could help, but it would need to be organized well with an easily accessible (and rapidly updated) online portal.

Say a Restaurant can safely hold a dozen tables of 4-6'ish players. Probably less, maybe some can do more, but let's call it 50'ish people. You'd need hundreds of them lined up to put more than a small dent in even a fraction of the demand for play space. Now imagine game groups wandering from location to location in the July/August Indiana heat. How many would go to a handful of locations before giving up and just hanging wherever they weren't being thrown out of? There are a good number of hotels and restaurants downtown for sure, but players would need to know where there was space to go, and it would need to be updated constantly to reflect people coming and going.

Basically, it'd be a huge amount of infrastructure work to realistically balance the load across the downtown core, rather than just having everything in a couple of blocks swarming with people and things a bit further out empty. If a given stretch of restaurants/hotels could support hundreds of people in well distanced spaces, if thousands of people all show up we've just moved the same problem from the convention center to other venues, which now have the unenviable task of enforcing the rules.

Note, I'm not saying it's impossible. But for it to actually contribute extra space in a safe manner consistent with CDC guidelines, it'd probably need a very robust way to keep everyone in the loop at a glance (and that's for people who do have an internet capable phone and a data plan for the area, before someone jumps on me for not respecting those who rely on non-smartphone technology).

I mean, if travel and tourism are still mostly in the gutter, the hotels might even be eager to play ball and make this happen. But ~2.5 months out isn't much time to build and test a robust enough system to keep people spread out and avoid major bottlenecks.

Posted by grognard262 wildcat78

8 hours of Arkham horror and the table orders two sodas, two iced teas, and 58 waters.
Do you tip 700% to be nice to the establishment and waitstaff?
what about miniature gamers?  Four tables to fight a 3000 point 40 k fight?
I’d hate to be the person that accidentally scoops up someone’s venerable dreadnought and puts it through the dishwasher....   

Last year, tickets sold for $2 per hour I think.  This could be remedied by charging a little more ($5?) for restaurant-hosted events, with the extra going to the establishment and staff.  Maybe the ticket price includes fountain drinks.

Also, since most events are book-ended by meals, the restaurants could get creative and try to capture a food order from the table during the hour before or after the game.  That would beat standing in line at a food truck, imo.

Posted by wildcat78

What about when your game session is ending and the check is delayed (or paying the check) so the next group is delayed on starting?

Restaurant gaming is good as a side quest, not as the main event.

 

Posted by lehane

I don't think Arkham Horror or 40K would be restaurant suitable games. I would like to think maybe some of the conference rooms in the hotels with reduced amount of tables overall in the room would be good for them. Likely have to put 2 hour games there if they even do restaurant games. 

I also imagine attendance will be down this year (assuming it still goes) so space may not be as cramped as it has been in the past. Our group has dropped by 20% already regardless of how things shake out for example. 

Posted by gskhaladon

https://411mania.com/movies/san-diego-comic-con-hints-online-at-home-edition-2020-convention/

Unlikely what GenCon could or should do, but I hadn't even heard they cancelled it already and it was only scheduled a few weeks before GenCon.

I wonder if these convention organizers are trading notes on what could work, what's been rejected as out of hand, and why they went the route of cancelling already.

About 3 miles from me we have the biggest fair in the Northeast called the Big E in September.  3 weeks, 175k people a day, shoulder to shoulder thru 1000s of vendors, replica state buildings, exhibit halls, farm exhibits (its roots are an agricultural fair), midways, 100s of food trucks/trailers, and they going thru the same pains here and while the owners don't want to cancel (only been cancelled during WWI and WWII) there is an expectation they will cancel pervading the air.  Its impact on the economy is huge from people renting out their lawns as parking to all the hotels in the area.  Currently the fairgrounds are being used as a COVID-19 testing site.

Posted by forar lehane

lehane wrote:
I don't think Arkham Horror or 40K would be restaurant suitable games. I would like to think maybe some of the conference rooms in the hotels with reduced amount of tables overall in the room would be good for them. Likely have to put 2 hour games there if they even do restaurant games. 
I also imagine attendance will be down this year (assuming it still goes) so space may not be as cramped as it has been in the past. Our group has dropped by 20% already regardless of how things shake out for example. 

It'd depend on the proportions. If 50% of people don't attend, but the convention center can only safely hold 25% of the people, that's still thousands of attendees who'd need somewhere else to be at a given point during the waking/event run periods of the day.

Of course, that also raises the question of if it's even possible for the event to remain profitable on a fraction of attendance. If it needs to run at 60% (hypothetically) to avoid hemorrhaging cash, and they only have 50%, then doing the usual plus all the costs that might be associated with spreading things out broadly could make it a non-starter.

Note, I'm not saying that Gencon needs to open their books or anything, it's certainly none of my business. I'm just trying to note that having a reduced attendance could solve one problem, while creating another. If their business model expects a certain number of attendees, and vastly fewer than that are able to make it (by choice or due to their state/country making it difficult or impossible), we hit another loss condition for Gencon 2020. Just something to mull over that occurred to me.

I took a course on risk management last year, so it kind of comes naturally to weigh out potential vulnerabilities and threat vectors. Financial is one such matter that's behind the scenes but could impact the con all the same.

Posted by lehane gskhaladon

gskhaladon wrote:
https://411mania.com/movies/san-diego-comic-con-hints-online-at-home-edition-2020-convention/
Unlikely what GenCon could or should do, but I hadn't even heard they cancelled it already and it was only scheduled a few weeks before GenCon.
I wonder if these convention organizers are trading notes on what could work, what's been rejected as out of hand, and why they went the route of cancelling already.
About 3 miles from me we have the biggest fair in the Northeast called the Big E in September.  3 weeks, 175k people a day, shoulder to shoulder thru 1000s of vendors, replica state buildings, exhibit halls, farm exhibits (its roots are an agricultural fair), midways, 100s of food trucks/trailers, and they going thru the same pains here and while the owners don't want to cancel (only been cancelled during WWI and WWII) there is an expectation they will cancel pervading the air.  Its impact on the economy is huge from people renting out their lawns as parking to all the hotels in the area.  Currently the fairgrounds are being used as a COVID-19 testing site.
I received a email asking me to do a survey from the group that runs Emerald City Comicon. I got less than halfway before I exited out of it. There was a bunch of questions about a "Virtual Convention", online panels, online meet and greets, etc. 

I get the feeling the idea of doing it over the internet is making the rounds. 

Posted by loeil lehane

lehane wrote:
gskhaladon wrote:
https://411mania.com/movies/san-diego-comic-con-hints-online-at-home-edition-2020-convention/
Unlikely what GenCon could or should do, but I hadn't even heard they cancelled it already and it was only scheduled a few weeks before GenCon.
I wonder if these convention organizers are trading notes on what could work, what's been rejected as out of hand, and why they went the route of cancelling already.
About 3 miles from me we have the biggest fair in the Northeast called the Big E in September.  3 weeks, 175k people a day, shoulder to shoulder thru 1000s of vendors, replica state buildings, exhibit halls, farm exhibits (its roots are an agricultural fair), midways, 100s of food trucks/trailers, and they going thru the same pains here and while the owners don't want to cancel (only been cancelled during WWI and WWII) there is an expectation they will cancel pervading the air.  Its impact on the economy is huge from people renting out their lawns as parking to all the hotels in the area.  Currently the fairgrounds are being used as a COVID-19 testing site.
I received a email asking me to do a survey from the group that runs Emerald City Comicon. I got less than halfway before I exited out of it. There was a bunch of questions about a "Virtual Convention", online panels, online meet and greets, etc. I get the feeling the idea of doing it over the internet is making the rounds. 
I hope this is not the way gencon will do things if it happens. Playing boardgame online is boring and buying games online... well that's already what people do anyway. A part of gencon is the feeling of testing a new game, or buy the latest hotness before everybody, walking in the vendor hall, meet with fellow gamers and just disconnect for a short while. I don't see it happens in an online manner. Like i said before, for gencon to happens, not only usa (indiana) but a big chunk of the world has to be in a better shape against the virus. How many publishers will come anyway if the virus is not settle?

Posted by stahlnee lore seeker

father bloodlust wrote:
Gen Con got a short mention in an Indianapolis Business Journal article about summer conventions and their prospects this year. One of the people quoted had an interesting idea.
Here's the part that talks about Gen Con:
"Gen Con, the city’s largest regular summer convention, draws about 70,000 people downtown each year. Its organizers have not said whether they will modify plans. Representatives for the organization did not respond to repeated requests for comment."
Kimberly Hoffman, president of the Indiana chapter of Meeting Professionals International, said Gen Con could 'get creative' with its activities, by spreading them throughout downtown.
"'I think there’s a really great opportunity for restaurants to become gaming space, and some of the city’s non-traditional venues to absorb a little bit of that traffic' to accommodate social distancing, Hoffman said."
Any list on which places are as ADA accessible as much as the convention center is?

Posted by lehane forar

forar wrote:
lehane wrote:
I don't think Arkham Horror or 40K would be restaurant suitable games. I would like to think maybe some of the conference rooms in the hotels with reduced amount of tables overall in the room would be good for them. Likely have to put 2 hour games there if they even do restaurant games. 
I also imagine attendance will be down this year (assuming it still goes) so space may not be as cramped as it has been in the past. Our group has dropped by 20% already regardless of how things shake out for example. 

It'd depend on the proportions. If 50% of people don't attend, but the convention center can only safely hold 25% of the people, that's still thousands of attendees who'd need somewhere else to be at a given point during the waking/event run periods of the day.Of course, that also raises the question of if it's even possible for the event to remain profitable on a fraction of attendance. If it needs to run at 60% (hypothetically) to avoid hemorrhaging cash, and they only have 50%, then doing the usual plus all the costs that might be associated with spreading things out broadly could make it a non-starter.
Note, I'm not saying that Gencon needs to open their books or anything, it's certainly none of my business. I'm just trying to note that having a reduced attendance could solve one problem, while creating another. If their business model expects a certain number of attendees, and vastly fewer than that are able to make it (by choice or due to their state/country making it difficult or impossible), we hit another loss condition for Gencon 2020. Just something to mull over that occurred to me.
I took a course on risk management last year, so it kind of comes naturally to weigh out potential vulnerabilities and threat vectors. Financial is one such matter that's behind the scenes but could impact the con all the same.
I hate to say it but reduced attendance this year is going to be a thing for all events: Conventions, concerts, fairs, etc. And it won't just be people worried about the virus, some people have been effected by loss of income and will be making cuts to the recreational portions of their yearly budgets even if worry over the virus isn't their top concern. 

There may be more people that attend Gencon "on the cheap" this year due to less than ideal recreational funds (assuming Gencon is held, even if postponed). 

Posted by cmegus

The fact that we have no event list (and even worse, no update on even WHEN an event list will even be released) is the real teller of the tale...

G
 

Posted by lore seeker cmegus

cmegus wrote:
The fact that we have no event list (and even worse, no update on even WHEN an event list will even be released) is the real teller of the tale...
G

Yeah, they really need to release that soon to give us some glimmer of hope that the convention is going to happen (preferably in person).

Posted by gskhaladon lore seeker

father bloodlust wrote:
cmegus wrote:
The fact that we have no event list (and even worse, no update on even WHEN an event list will even be released) is the real teller of the tale...
G

Yeah, they really need to release that soon to give us some glimmer of hope that the convention is going to happen (preferably in person).

Without a logistics plan or WHERE and HOW the events can take place, an event list is meaningless.  I've been having some conversations with people in the know about the aforementioned fair in MA I mentioned, and the consensus is there is no way in hell that the logistics and numbers work at half capacity, even if they can get all the vendors to agree to that, and then if they cannot, its a race to the bottom as one vendor pulls out, a complimentary one pulls out too, etc.  So then you have 3/4 empty fairgrounds and no reason for people to pay 18/head/day to attend, so the crowds don't come and the long term reputation of the event is trashed.

The worst case scenario is that the event goes on as planned (talking about GenCon here too) with nothing really changed other than masks, hand sanitizer, room limit counts, etc and go with whatever crowd shows up (say 40,000 comes).   Gaming is on a popular uptake to the casuals playing board games, and a major infection hot spots develops.  GenCon would then get a reputation as unsafe, irresponsible, and get mentioned just like Biogen's conference in Boston as a major outbreak center.  That would not be a good look for gaming as a whole.
 

Posted by ladye gskhaladon

gskhaladon wrote:
father bloodlust wrote:
Gen Con got a short mention in an Indianapolis Business Journal article about summer conventions and their prospects this year. One of the people quoted had an interesting idea.
Here's the part that talks about Gen Con:
"Gen Con, the city’s largest regular summer convention, draws about 70,000 people downtown each year. Its organizers have not said whether they will modify plans. Representatives for the organization did not respond to repeated requests for comment."
Kimberly Hoffman, president of the Indiana chapter of Meeting Professionals International, said Gen Con could 'get creative' with its activities, by spreading them throughout downtown.
"'I think there’s a really great opportunity for restaurants to become gaming space, and some of the city’s non-traditional venues to absorb a little bit of that traffic' to accommodate social distancing, Hoffman said."

Interesting concept.  You also are then even more dependent on a transportation infrastructure than likely exists.  There were times my partner and I were waiting 20-30 mins for an Uber just to get back and forth to our AirBNB 10 mins away once or twice a day.  Now everyone will need a car and/or an Uber constantly to get around.  Or a LOT more walking more than the 10000 steps we averaged daily last year as it was.Also if you start mixing in restaurants and such, you introduce alcohol to the mix and alcohol produces anything but social distancing.

How much more are you willing to tip a server if you are keeping their tables occupied for hours beyond your meal time with game playing?

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